When all’s said and done, I’d rather have proof that ICE ignored 1000 orders than only ignored 10 and nobody challenged the other 990. It’s not one or the other, we can still use the court systems to create a trail of accountability while we also work to dismantle the systems being put in place to ignore the courts. As flawed and incomplete as the Nuremberg trials were, they only made it as far as they did because so much was documented by people who thought they’d never be held accountable for their actions. Every ignored court order is the chance to punish someone when they are no longer in power.
And besides, even if they only obey one out of every ten, that’s still worth the effort when the alternative is just not trying because people don’t think it’ll work.
That’s totally sensible, my issue is just with framing this as “10 people released”. If it actually is, great, fantastic. But if it’s not, it’s creating a false sense of progress that causes people to underestimate the problem and feel like it’s resolved when it’s really, really not.
Do you have evidence for either that these 10 orders were ignored or that there was some false sense of progress that coddled anyone to not do anything because of these 10 orders?
Resistance is not a monolith, it is not all or nothing. It is these shitty 10 orders AND all the other work that people are doing. There is nothing too small and too petty when it comes to resisting fascism. Every little thing raises the cost for the fascists, raises the friction. Remember that 1944 manual on Simple Sabotage? Raise the friction in every way possible. That’s the point.
So, sure say your reminder that “that’s not enough” but then move on and go do something petty to raise the friction the fascists face.
This comment is also speculation is it not? We have evidence that the court ordered people to be released. We don’t have evidence that the order was ignored. Even in the cases where ICE/DHS have taken time to release people they drag their feet, maybe submit an appeal, but they have not outright ignored the order.
Huge asterisk of course because they did ignore orders when sending people out of country. But in terms of holding them domestically the largest delay I’ve heard was a week I believe where they were trying to get out of the court order through appeals.
Feel free to post evidence though, keeping up with the crimes of this administration is a full time job
When all’s said and done, I’d rather have proof that ICE ignored 1000 orders than only ignored 10 and nobody challenged the other 990. It’s not one or the other, we can still use the court systems to create a trail of accountability while we also work to dismantle the systems being put in place to ignore the courts. As flawed and incomplete as the Nuremberg trials were, they only made it as far as they did because so much was documented by people who thought they’d never be held accountable for their actions. Every ignored court order is the chance to punish someone when they are no longer in power.
And besides, even if they only obey one out of every ten, that’s still worth the effort when the alternative is just not trying because people don’t think it’ll work.
That’s totally sensible, my issue is just with framing this as “10 people released”. If it actually is, great, fantastic. But if it’s not, it’s creating a false sense of progress that causes people to underestimate the problem and feel like it’s resolved when it’s really, really not.
Do you have evidence for either that these 10 orders were ignored or that there was some false sense of progress that coddled anyone to not do anything because of these 10 orders?
Resistance is not a monolith, it is not all or nothing. It is these shitty 10 orders AND all the other work that people are doing. There is nothing too small and too petty when it comes to resisting fascism. Every little thing raises the cost for the fascists, raises the friction. Remember that 1944 manual on Simple Sabotage? Raise the friction in every way possible. That’s the point.
So, sure say your reminder that “that’s not enough” but then move on and go do something petty to raise the friction the fascists face.
This comment is also speculation is it not? We have evidence that the court ordered people to be released. We don’t have evidence that the order was ignored. Even in the cases where ICE/DHS have taken time to release people they drag their feet, maybe submit an appeal, but they have not outright ignored the order.
Huge asterisk of course because they did ignore orders when sending people out of country. But in terms of holding them domestically the largest delay I’ve heard was a week I believe where they were trying to get out of the court order through appeals.
Feel free to post evidence though, keeping up with the crimes of this administration is a full time job