I’m sorry to tell you this, but asbestos was banned in brake pads in the US in 2024. There were restrictions in the type and processing of asbestos in the 80s, and most manufacturers stopped in the 90s, but it’s definitely still out there, especially if you’re working on a classic car, a junker that someone chose the cheapest parts for, or any kind of industrial vehicle (the last one isn’t likely for non mechanics, but most people I know who work on their own cars are working on one of the first two).
That said, I don’t think a few exposures over a lifetime are likely to cause mesothelioma. I hesitate to even say that, because it could happen with one fiber, but the vast majority of people who develop mesothelioma had multiple exposures, either very early on (eg. children of mechanics who did the laundry every other day for years), along with comorbidities (smoking, drinking, using a wood/peat stove, etc.), or on a daily basis for years and years.
I’m not saying that it’s not a danger or that you shouldn’t treat it very, very carefully (almost as delicately as you’d handle an open vial of fluorine), but I do always wonder if it would be better for everyone to do themselves it every couple of years instead of giving all of the risk to mechanics. They should have better PPE and knowledge about how to handle it than lay people, but A) we won’t really know if the PPE was effective until people have been using it for forty years and then do or don’t develop mesothelioma, and B) there is unfortunately a lot of pressure on people, from both peers and employers, not to advocate for best practices and sufficient PPE, which, along with a culture of machismo in many trades, means that people aren’t actually as protected or careful about disposal as the industry reports that they are.
But then again, given that these are brakes we’re talking about, I absolutely don’t want lay people fucking up their brakes and endangering everyone. The best solution imo would for 60+ year old mechanics to volunteer to do it (or even for the government to create a program for retired mechanics to work one day a week part time for as long as they’re capable/willing without any impact on their retirement benefits/social security). It takes several decades to manifest, so they’re almost certainly to die of something else first.
Sorry, should have clarified - I’m European so less of an issue.
But also, if you’re considering it, it’s not hard to avoid brake dust going into the air for the most part. One guy I met just rained the brake cleaner over everything before starting, for instance.
That being said I’ve had an awful lot of brake fluid and cleaner (plus engine and gearbox oil, coolant, etc etc) on my hands over the years, so they’re probably going to fall off any time now … taking care of ones skin is important too :-)
Yeah, that’s absolutely fair. It was fully banned in the EU in 2005, which is still way too late, but much better. Several individual countries had banned it earlier, but I don’t know how many or how effective that actually is in the single market.
I was handling all types of latent claims with long term exposures which aren’t exclusively toxin based, but it was mostly environmental/workplace poisoning, like lead paint, asbestos, printing chemicals, or radiation. One of the things I realized is that we’re either all fucked, or we’re more resilient than we expect, because most of us have a lot more casual contact with serious carcinogens than we think we do.
I try to lean towards the latter while still taking appropriate precautions, but none of us gets out alive. If I loved working on old cars, I’d probably do it despite the risks (but I’d definitely do a wet clean with as fine a mask as I could find and a disposable smock, then I’d immediately shower and get rid of my rags afterwards), because I think it’s better to use your time in a way that makes you happy than preserve a life that doesn’t fulfill you.
Anyway, that got very off track from the original diversion, but it was a fun chat. And now I’m going to throw a pair of dishwashing gloves in my trunk.
Better to carry a packet with a couple of nitrile gloves … you’re not going to be able to work properly in dishwashing gloves :-/
I don’t know what the opposite of survivorship bias is, but it sounds like your work on claims gave you that. If humans were easy to kill there wouldn’t be so many of us!
Oh yeah, I was a worrier before working exclusively with people who got the worst result from the dangers constantly around us, but I try not to let it spiral.
I also used to be a smoker, which weirdly makes it easier to dismiss worrying about other things.
I’m sorry to tell you this, but asbestos was banned in brake pads in the US in 2024. There were restrictions in the type and processing of asbestos in the 80s, and most manufacturers stopped in the 90s, but it’s definitely still out there, especially if you’re working on a classic car, a junker that someone chose the cheapest parts for, or any kind of industrial vehicle (the last one isn’t likely for non mechanics, but most people I know who work on their own cars are working on one of the first two).
That said, I don’t think a few exposures over a lifetime are likely to cause mesothelioma. I hesitate to even say that, because it could happen with one fiber, but the vast majority of people who develop mesothelioma had multiple exposures, either very early on (eg. children of mechanics who did the laundry every other day for years), along with comorbidities (smoking, drinking, using a wood/peat stove, etc.), or on a daily basis for years and years.
I’m not saying that it’s not a danger or that you shouldn’t treat it very, very carefully (almost as delicately as you’d handle an open vial of fluorine), but I do always wonder if it would be better for everyone to do themselves it every couple of years instead of giving all of the risk to mechanics. They should have better PPE and knowledge about how to handle it than lay people, but A) we won’t really know if the PPE was effective until people have been using it for forty years and then do or don’t develop mesothelioma, and B) there is unfortunately a lot of pressure on people, from both peers and employers, not to advocate for best practices and sufficient PPE, which, along with a culture of machismo in many trades, means that people aren’t actually as protected or careful about disposal as the industry reports that they are.
But then again, given that these are brakes we’re talking about, I absolutely don’t want lay people fucking up their brakes and endangering everyone. The best solution imo would for 60+ year old mechanics to volunteer to do it (or even for the government to create a program for retired mechanics to work one day a week part time for as long as they’re capable/willing without any impact on their retirement benefits/social security). It takes several decades to manifest, so they’re almost certainly to die of something else first.
Sorry, should have clarified - I’m European so less of an issue.
But also, if you’re considering it, it’s not hard to avoid brake dust going into the air for the most part. One guy I met just rained the brake cleaner over everything before starting, for instance.
That being said I’ve had an awful lot of brake fluid and cleaner (plus engine and gearbox oil, coolant, etc etc) on my hands over the years, so they’re probably going to fall off any time now … taking care of ones skin is important too :-)
Yeah, that’s absolutely fair. It was fully banned in the EU in 2005, which is still way too late, but much better. Several individual countries had banned it earlier, but I don’t know how many or how effective that actually is in the single market.
I was handling all types of latent claims with long term exposures which aren’t exclusively toxin based, but it was mostly environmental/workplace poisoning, like lead paint, asbestos, printing chemicals, or radiation. One of the things I realized is that we’re either all fucked, or we’re more resilient than we expect, because most of us have a lot more casual contact with serious carcinogens than we think we do.
I try to lean towards the latter while still taking appropriate precautions, but none of us gets out alive. If I loved working on old cars, I’d probably do it despite the risks (but I’d definitely do a wet clean with as fine a mask as I could find and a disposable smock, then I’d immediately shower and get rid of my rags afterwards), because I think it’s better to use your time in a way that makes you happy than preserve a life that doesn’t fulfill you.
Anyway, that got very off track from the original diversion, but it was a fun chat. And now I’m going to throw a pair of dishwashing gloves in my trunk.
Better to carry a packet with a couple of nitrile gloves … you’re not going to be able to work properly in dishwashing gloves :-/
I don’t know what the opposite of survivorship bias is, but it sounds like your work on claims gave you that. If humans were easy to kill there wouldn’t be so many of us!
Oh yeah, I was a worrier before working exclusively with people who got the worst result from the dangers constantly around us, but I try not to let it spiral.
I also used to be a smoker, which weirdly makes it easier to dismiss worrying about other things.