With these new rules, FIDE has managed to
- Imply the mental inferiority of women
- Validate the existence of transgender men
- Destroy the integrity of awards record-keeping
- Call transgender women men
Very nice, FIDE, incredible mental gymnastics performance! 👏 Add them to the ever lengthening sports federation shitlist.
Well… no. There are maybe 50 women total who could play in the NFL, mostly as kickers. In basketball, women use a smaller ball because their hands are just smaller. Someone who’s FTM is probably not going to be able to compete.
There are enduring advantages from living most of your life pumped with testosterone. But there’s so few top athletes who transition MTF in their prime, it’s not a big problem. Just look at Caitlyn Jenner. She could still beat most women (and men) at a track meet.
Just gonna paste an old comment I made about trans athletes. TL;DR: athletic advantages/disadvantages diminish after ~2 years of HRT. There’s no good reason to exclude trans people from elite sports. Athletes already undergo testing to make sure their hormones levels are within pre-determined limits.
British Journal of Sports Medicine states 2 years after receiving gender affirming hormones, athletic advantages disappeared with an exception to running, in which trans- women had 9% faster lap times. Trans-men were on par with their biological male counterparts after just 1 year of hormone therapy.
Medscape has an interview with Joanna Harper, and advisor to the I0C on gender and sports about this very topic. In the interview she mentions a study out of Brazil that indicates a further decrease in strength in trans-women (MtF) athletes after 36 months, further diminishing any potential physiological advantage in these athletes.
There’s also something to be said about who these arguments are targeting. There are very few elite trans athletes and they already have to conform to strict guidelines on blood hormone levels and other doping tactics, just like everyone else at that level. The arguments are largely against high schoolers (children) who just want to participate in something. No one is taking puberty blockers and gender affirming hormones just to take a trophy home in high school. It’s a ridiculous argument through and through. A thinly veiled attempt to further marginalize and discriminate against a vulnerable population
The issue of transgender athletes was basically resolved several years ago when the IOC decided on two years of feminizing hormones before transgender women could compete in the female category. But due to the re-emergence of the anti-queer culture war, sports federations are re-litigating the issue and throwing science out the door.
Science completely disagrees in so many studies. Let alone the personal opinions of trans athletes in the world themselves lol.
Like you two, I’ve provided sauce above. Most of it far more recent than several years ago as if pointing to a single study refutes any other lol.
Edit: It sounds like you’re referencing old studies. And the Olympic Committee isn’t exactly known for being on top of science or neutral lol. It’s nearly decade old science in a field that still needs a lot of data.
https://www.science.org/content/article/scientist-racing-discover-how-gender-transitions-alter-athletic-performance-including
More news showing it’s unfair. Just go see my original.
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/24/1165795462/transgender-track-and-field-athletes-cant-compete-in-womens-international-events
Begone, transphobe.
Sounds more like you’re a closed minded bigot who has already made up their mind despite being shown evidence to the contrary.
It’s not a very becoming look for someone who presumably wants progress for trans folk. You can’t just stuff your head in the sand the moment science begins to sway a different direction. It’s not how science or reality works. It’s not Adam Savage’s most well known catchphrase.
These are important discussions and you’re literally harming trans people by acting this petulant and childish. Quit with the persecution act and show your sources. This ain’t Truth Social lmfao.
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Yeaaaaah no. Gender, just like sexual preference is a spectrum and people can fall anywhere on that spectrum
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So even if we knew, with near certainty, that a child would be helped by gender-affirming care, you maintain “no exceptions”. Because forcing 99 trans people through an undesired puberty is better for you than 1 cisgender person having a delayed puberty. Because 99 miserable trans people is worth saving 1 cis person from even mild discomfort.
You aren’t a doctor, and more importantly, you aren’t their doctor. Keep your nose out of other people’s healthcare, it is none of your business.
Define gender affirming care, please. Does it involve a scalpel? If so - sorry, thats sickening and should be illegal. Must be 18 and have given full consent. Doesnt matter what some gender doctor says either - as if they arent on the payroll here too? C’mon.
Yeah this demonstrates a complete lack of understanding and probably an unwillingness to try to understand. As a cis-gender individuals you and I can’t know what it’s like to be trans, but we can listen to those who do know and try to understand to the best of our abilities. You clearly don’t wish to, but I have listened and I try to understand because I wish to be a decent human being.
My friends and family who are trans have said they knew from very young ages that they are not the gender they may have been biologically born as.
Also once you know you are trans one of the first steps is to take medications that prevent puberty from occuring which allows a much easier and cleaner transition later in life as well as allowing them to present as the gender they wish to present as. Preventing access to this kind of medical care until they are 18 is severely detrimental.
Gender affirming medical care is critical because the suicide rates of trans people who are not able to transition are incredibly high and rates of regret for those who are able to receive transition surgery is so shocking close to zero.
TL;DR you’re wrong and an asshole for choosing not to learn otherwise
Wow - finishes up with the usual insults. Relax, bruh. What exactly is “gender affirming care” anyways? Cutting genitals off of young boys/girls who might be simply confused or following the latest trend? They cant vote, drive after 9pm, buy a gun, get a tattoo, etc. until they are 18 but you and your kind are fine with hacking them up much younger than that. Pretty sick, sorry.
You’re being downvoted by noodle-arm nerds who haven’t competed in any kind of sport since they got their last participation trophy in 2nd grade and think downvotes on an irrelevant platform like Lemmy is the same as social justice.
I know. As soon as you question the “agenda” at all you get attacked by the usual suspects. Whatever. It’s clear that when people get mad an insult you that you’ve struck a nerve. They can’t handle it.
“The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.” - Carl Sagan.
I’m sure muscle diminishes rapidly after MTF transition, but humans are just very good at losing muscle. Height and hand size are not things that go away after transition. Basketball is obviously one of the sports where MTF people have a massive advantage, although I don’t know of any studies on it. It depends massively on the sport.
Of course in professional leagues everyone is genetically unique. Saying “no this particular genetically unique person is unfair” is a bit weird.
When you start talking about height and hand size, I think you’re getting lost in the sauce. Basketball already favors abnormally tall people anyway, but no one is trying to ban Yao Ming from the sport for being 229 cm (7’6").
Yeah. Pretty much all the transphobic arguments could apply to most top athletes.
“Yao Ming is stealing sports from natural, normal height men!”
“Michael Phelps has an unfair advantage because he has unnatural lungs and bone structure!”
“It’s not fair to normal men that they have to compete against Mike Tyson. Would you want your son to have to fight against that?”
The reality is that the top athletes will always be physical outliers. That doesn’t mean more average folks need to be excluded from sports nor that birth gender necessarily gives you an unfair advantage compared to the top athletes.
Beat me to the punch. This has been a settled issue for years, the only reason to hammer on about how trans people shouldn’t be in sports is either prejudice or ignorance. And having a several comment exchange where sources are already cited kinda narrows that down
Have you seen Michael Phelp’s hands. The man is an absolute genetic freak with multiple advantages, both in external build and internally (e.g. lactose buildup), there’s no way anyone with average genetics can compete no matter how much they train.
And middle of the road athletes competing in the men’s leagues don’t become top athletes in the woman’s league after transitioning, btw. They become middle of the road. Might there be some slight advantage? Dunno, not sure, might be, but it also doesn’t matter because noone the fuck is willing to incur gender dysphoria to win a fucking title. Athletes are nuts but not that nuts.
The fuck are you talking about trans female athletes have been smashing Womens* records for years now.
running https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/trans-runner-wins-another-womens-race-one-year-after-breaking-record-angering-critics
swimming https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/18/sport/lia-thomas-transgender-ivy-league-swim-championships/index.html
lifting https://thecomeback.com/olympics/transgender-powerlifter-anne-andres-sets-national-record.html
Except they haven’t. There are a small handful of examples, that people both greatly exaggerate, and repeat over and over again. Trans people have been allowed to compete for many years prior, and have not overrun women’s sports.
Simple math is that even being a small minority, trans people will, occasionally, win things. Even if there are zero competitive advantages to being a transgender woman, some trans women are gonna excel. Finding a handful of examples of trans people being good at sports isn’t actually proof of advantage.
Is the type of race that can be totally dominated by up and coming Olympic athletes. Regional/institutional races tend to have quite low records until someone top-tier happens, by chance, to participate in them in the course of their career.
My sides. A senior event. At that age the only one you’re competing against is yourself.
Yeah that’s bullshit there’s a reason the rules set by all other organisations involve something along the lines of a minimum of two years on HRT. Noone at all anywhere is claming that the act of identifying as a woman, alone, reduces muscle mass.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/50097423
move those goal posts
https://www.outsports.com/2022/3/24/22994867/emily-bridges-cyclist-transgender-commonwealth-games
Feel free to provide any actual counter evidence aside from your own personal prejudices and pointless judgements anytime you like.
Nice of you to provide your own counter-evidence. There we have it, a top athlete in the men’s category, slumping to “does she even qualify?” in the men’s ratings, but ranking top in the woman’s category – because she was and still is a stellar athlete.
This is what I keep thinking whenever I hear about this “debate.” But I guess if the bigots admitted they know how hormones work, then they wouldn’t have an outlet for their transphobia.
It’s incredible how a good number of transphobic people just either do not know, or cannot admit, what hormones do.