• Buffalox
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    2 days ago

    Anecdotally I know a German that completely shuts up like a clam as soon as there is any talk criticizing Israel. My guess is the subject is still extremely toxic in Germany.
    IMO that kind of social inability to debate an issue is what feeds parties like AfD.
    We had something similar here in Denmark, it used to be socially unacceptable to criticize immigration, and the result was that we got a new party with the exclusive goal to prevent immigration, and at their height they achieved 20% of the vote for parliament.
    The main reason they have dropped since, is that the other parties began to actually adopt some of their policies. 🤥😳

    I don’t see how Jews could be seen as a big political problem in Germany, so the centrists are probably exploiting social stigma, and that stigma is in itself harmful, and centrists exploiting it will only pave the way even more for AfD.

    It’s insane that some people consider it antisemitism to criticize Israel’s genocide in Palestine.

    • Strider
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      1 day ago

      Am German, your guess is correct. As soon as anything goes it that direction it’s all blamed as antisemitism and you should know your Erbschuld.

      Basically, as Merz said, we’re fully supporting Israel. And that’s also one of the things causing more and more issues and gap between politics and reality here.

        • Strider
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          11 hours ago

          Willst du damit sagen dass in bawü mindestens 3 Jahre lang alle Schüler von nazis unterrichtet wurden?

          Das haben wir so ein gehämmert bekommen.

          https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erbsünde

          Außerdem deutlich älter als Nazis vom Begriff her.

          • foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev
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            4 hours ago

            Willst du damit sagen dass in bawü mindestens 3 Jahre lang alle Schüler von nazis unterrichtet wurden?

            das ist evident, denn auf eurer seite der Labe konnten die allermeisten Lehrer nach reichsende ja weiter unterrichten.

            dann ist es auch so, daß wir hier in der norddeutschen tiefebene, bei den leuten im ländle wirklich nicht über irrationalität überrascht sind. siehe die hohe Antroposophen- und Evangelikalen-dichte bspw.

            aber was ist euch denn da so herzlich pädagogisch nun “eingehämmert” worden? erst benutzt du die (im kontext der Shoah) nazivokabel (wenn du es strikt willst: post-nationalsozialistische vokabel im diskurs des sekundären antisemitismus) “Erbschuld”, nun verlinkst du nen artikel zu einer theologischen kategorie.

            (soll ich auch ein paar begriffe, die semantische verschiebungen erfahren haben, aufzählen?)

      • Jesus_666
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        1 day ago

        For the record, as a German I do remember the lessons we learned from our grisly past: That genocide is evil and that it’s very easy for a country to sink into utter barbarism. I wish we could take the principled stand we owe to our past victims and condemn Israel for its actions.

        Unfortunately, that’s just what the German people learned. German politicians apparently learned from our past that our mistake was to genocide the wrong people and to lose the war.

        • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 day ago

          From the outside it really feels like the German elites, including its political class, might have been forced by outsiders to hide their swastikas and stop loudly shouting certain slogans, but their hearts remained in the same place and their “values” the same.

          “We made a mistake and this race were not untermenschem but rather ubermeschen like us” is a lot easier to accept than it is to turn ones entire morality upside down and accept that people and the way they should be treated is not determied by race and thus they personally (as “Arians”) are not inherently superior.

          Certainly this explains why the “making amends” after WWII and the Holocaust was an almost entirelly racialized thing rather than being about the actual victims and how that should never be done to anybody (the race-agnostice people-centric Humanist view) and why not all ethnic groups with large numbers of victims in the Holocaust got the same treatment (specifically the Romani - over 250000 of whom were murdered in the Holocaust and who were targetted for extermination - don’t get anywhere the same treatment as the Jewish People).

          In light of their reaction to the Israeli Genocide in Gaza, the heavy stink of Racism from the German elites is becoming very clear and its roots in History seem obvious.

      • Buffalox
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        1 day ago

        Supporting Israel is making the same mistake twice.

        • Strider
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          1 day ago

          To make it a little more nuanced let’s say that supporting genocide is doing it again.

          • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 day ago

            The whole supporting of a nation because of the race of its people is the morality of Racists and Supremacists.

            You could say that’s the original sin in what Germany is doing now.

            From that moral posture of one’s race justifying unwavering support no matter how horrible one’s actas to ending up supporting genocide as long as a “good” race is doing it to a “bad” race, is a much smaller step, especially in Germany where there’s a lot of practice in doing exactly that.

          • DaveyRocket
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            1 day ago

            HR has asked you to find the differences in these images.

              • Buffalox
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                12 hours ago

                In Germany they actually teach school children about the atrocities of WW2 exactly to try to prevent them from happening again.
                So they don’t just consider them “over”, very far from it!