Maybe I’ve misunderstood the situation then, I’d be happy to be enlightened if you can see something I can’t.
Twice I’ve been banned for breaking the rule about bigotry, both times it happened directly after answering EmmiLime, and when asking the moderator what happened, I’ve been sent links about the SS and the Wolfsangel. At least once my answer was removed. It seems clear to me that the wrong answer to EmmiLime’s question constitutes bigotry.
That judgement is the prerogative of this community and the moderator, I am not complaining or trying to speak ill of the moderator, I am just trying to follow the rules and not rise to the bait.
I have zero sympathy for Nazis no matter what time and what country.
Sorry, davel. As I hope you can see, I’ve done my best not to do it again.
Don’t know if it makes a difference, but I wasn’t pretending, I was being earnest. And I’m not a fascist dog whistler, but a socialist fighting for international worker’s solidarity.
both times it happened directly after answering EmmiLime, and when asking the moderator what happened, I’ve been sent links about the SS and the Wolfsangel.
Probably because you refuse to call the “Ukrainian SS” Nazi symbols, you just keep dodging or saying it MIGHT look like it or that they look like 44???
At least once my answer was removed. It seems clear to me that the wrong answer to EmmiLime’s question constitutes bigotry.
AGAIN ARE THESE NAZI SYMBOLS YES??? OR NO???
IF you say yes, then you don’t get banned, but if you keep vagueposting instead and not even saying no, then you get banned like you described. Because that’s what your behaviour has been the entire time.
I’m not the type to go looking through a posters entire history, I looked through your modlog because it’s short and an easy click and I’m in class with a terrible professor right now, so anything to make the time pass I suppose.
You have these two comments removed and you seem to have been banned from the comm around the same time for breaking rule 1 “be civil and nice”
And THIS is the picture you’re talking about
First off, I’d like to say that declaring oneself something does not matter, it’s the actions most of all and then, quite far behind, the thoughts one has. Words are cheap.
You might say you have no sympathy for nazis, but in practice you’re running defense for them, trying to pretend an obvious wolfsangel (which is an SS symbol, it was used by a good couple of divisions) isn’t that. You’re like a guy saying “Oh come on maybe Adolph1488, the poster with a long history of posting nazi shit and doing nazi shit, is actually just a german guy who made this account when he was 14 and 8 is his lucky number!” You clearly have a lot of sympathy for nazis. That isn’t even a dogwhistle, it’s just straight up nazi shit.
Secondly I’d like to point out that “civility” isn’t just about using the right words. It’s a pretty common tactic for types like you to do this, where you are acting in obvious bad faith, being obtuse, talking in circles, moving goalposts, begging the question, doing motte-and-bailey shit and (though you have not done this so far, but I would not be surprised to see it) acting like your worldview is somehow both evident yet also so novel that noone has considered it, while being able to provide no proof, yet demanding proof for the proof of the proof for anything anyone else presents, if it is acknowledged at all. These things can be done while sounding incredibly reasonable, but to anyone with a couple of neurons they’re still obvious and they are incredibly uncivil.
In our interaction you have oscillated from being an uncivil asshole to just being an obvious debatebro at this point. That’s what’s getting you banned. Being uncivil.
If I post a picture of a swastika and you say “maybe it’s just a windmill!” Then it is entirely reasonable to assume you’re being an asshole, especially if that statement comes alongside the other poor rhetorics you’ve been pulling. Did you swear when you said “maybe it’s just a windmill!”? No, nor did you insult me. But goddamn that is uncivil, thinking other people will fall for that, assuming other people would take that seriously.
And again, the person going “ITS JUST A WINDMILL” might announce they don’t like nazis, but it’s pretty clear by their actions that they do in fact hold them near and dear to their heart to such an extent they are, at the very best, willing to go far beyond reasonable doubt.
Now I suppose it might have been a genuine question, but in that case I gotta say it’s surprising to me you don’t understand your actions exist in the context of your other actions. Acting like an obvious debatebro combined with that makes any reasonable person assume you’re being disingenuous.
I don’t know the rules about relitigating mod decisions, so let me preface by saying that I am not complaining, not trying to undermine any authority of the mods here, and not trying to claim that any nazi groups are in fact not nazis.
First some corrections: When I asked the mod about the ban, they sent me back the message
No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
along with links to educational resources on nazi symbols and this Ukrainian brigade. So this is about rule 1 of lemmy.ml, not about civility, at least according to them. Second of all, I wasn’t saying anything about the Wolfsangel other than “that’s for sure a Wolfsangel symbol”, as your screenshot shows. I was instead confused about whether the shoulder patch of the 44th division was the number 44 written to look like an SS symbol, or the literal SS symbol. I thought it was the former, but have been corrected through banning and deletion.
Now you claim I am a nazi sympathizer (or an idiot). I don’t consider myself either, but I’m always happy to be corrected. I have no sympathy for Nazi’s, as I say, and I have never defended or supported this Ukrainian group or any other. My question about the symbol was a question about the literal symbol on the blurry picture, not because a 44 made to look like an SS logo means they’re not Nazis, but because it matters whether they have to at least have the thinnest fig leaf to hide that fact behind, or whether they’re full on wearing literal SS symbols. It was meant with good faith only.
In our interaction you have oscillated from being an uncivil asshole to just being an obvious debatebro at this point.
Acting like an obvious debatebro combined with that makes any reasonable person assume you’re being disingenuous.
I’m sorry you feel like that. I am here to learn, and have been curious about the leap from “Russia should withdraw” to “you should enlist” which was made earlier. My initial comment was maybe pointed, challenging you to clarify an apparent asymmetry in your argument, and you have. I hope that my restatement of your viewpoint have made it clear that I have been listening. If you could point out specifics of uncivil or bad faith behavior, I’d be happy to correct that in the future. Also I’m not sure what a debatebro is, sorry.
If you’re open to critique yourself, I do feel that calling me dense, dickhead and asshole aren’t peak civility, but I don’t really mind.
I’ll write a longer response some time tomorrow probably. I feel like I’m falling for bait, but I know how it is to struggle with communication and I feel bad about possibly having hurt someone purely because they’re ND or in some other way challenged when it comes to communication.
The short answer is that most of your questions can be found answered in between the vitriol I package it in - I find that you retread the same arguments, while acting as if you do not, you receive answers to questions, yet do not engage with them, you try to frame conversation in a way where key parts of the others arguments are left out and you at times seem to be (at the very best) going far beyond reasonable doubt. None of these are reason for derision in themselves, but they occur in a package and they occur in a community that’s used to a bunch of people behaving very much akin to that acting in bad faith. This latter part is sadly not on you, and it is detrimental to the community at times (like the person going off on someone just asking for a source).
I did not consider your initial comment pointed, it was rather how the conversation continued that made me think of you like so.
I changed my mind with your restatement, since with that statement you engaged with my answers and showed interest in continuing the discussion instead of talking in circles.
If you’re open to critique yourself, I do feel that calling me dense, dickhead and asshole aren’t peak civility, but I don’t really mind
You are completely correct. I don’t consider myself civil in our interaction, because I consider civility to be a two-way street. When I experience a breakdown in civility, then I reciprocrate. I do not consider that critique, it’s very obvious.
I would not worry about relitigating mod actions, though I’m not a mod, so who knows.
I think the response you got was weird, I don’t know what to do about it. I guess you could contact the mod team and ask.
If you are truly interested in learning then I would want you to reach out to Yogthos (for Russia-Ukraine) or Cowbee (General leftism) instead of me. They are both far more knowledgeable, far more patient and far better teachers than I am. You can just send them a DM and if you’re straightforward about your intentions and your questions, then you should have no isse.
Maybe I’ve misunderstood the situation then, I’d be happy to be enlightened if you can see something I can’t.
Twice I’ve been banned for breaking the rule about bigotry, both times it happened directly after answering EmmiLime, and when asking the moderator what happened, I’ve been sent links about the SS and the Wolfsangel. At least once my answer was removed. It seems clear to me that the wrong answer to EmmiLime’s question constitutes bigotry.
That judgement is the prerogative of this community and the moderator, I am not complaining or trying to speak ill of the moderator, I am just trying to follow the rules and not rise to the bait.
I have zero sympathy for Nazis no matter what time and what country.
Pretending that the SS symbol might actually be a 44 isn’t so smooth, operator. Fascist dog whistlers are seldom smooth.
Sorry, davel. As I hope you can see, I’ve done my best not to do it again.
Don’t know if it makes a difference, but I wasn’t pretending, I was being earnest. And I’m not a fascist dog whistler, but a socialist fighting for international worker’s solidarity.
Probably because you refuse to call the “Ukrainian SS” Nazi symbols, you just keep dodging or saying it MIGHT look like it or that they look like 44???
AGAIN ARE THESE NAZI SYMBOLS YES??? OR NO???
IF you say yes, then you don’t get banned, but if you keep vagueposting instead and not even saying no, then you get banned like you described. Because that’s what your behaviour has been the entire time.
I’m not the type to go looking through a posters entire history, I looked through your modlog because it’s short and an easy click and I’m in class with a terrible professor right now, so anything to make the time pass I suppose.
You have these two comments removed and you seem to have been banned from the comm around the same time for breaking rule 1 “be civil and nice”
And THIS is the picture you’re talking about
First off, I’d like to say that declaring oneself something does not matter, it’s the actions most of all and then, quite far behind, the thoughts one has. Words are cheap.
You might say you have no sympathy for nazis, but in practice you’re running defense for them, trying to pretend an obvious wolfsangel (which is an SS symbol, it was used by a good couple of divisions) isn’t that. You’re like a guy saying “Oh come on maybe Adolph1488, the poster with a long history of posting nazi shit and doing nazi shit, is actually just a german guy who made this account when he was 14 and 8 is his lucky number!” You clearly have a lot of sympathy for nazis. That isn’t even a dogwhistle, it’s just straight up nazi shit.
Secondly I’d like to point out that “civility” isn’t just about using the right words. It’s a pretty common tactic for types like you to do this, where you are acting in obvious bad faith, being obtuse, talking in circles, moving goalposts, begging the question, doing motte-and-bailey shit and (though you have not done this so far, but I would not be surprised to see it) acting like your worldview is somehow both evident yet also so novel that noone has considered it, while being able to provide no proof, yet demanding proof for the proof of the proof for anything anyone else presents, if it is acknowledged at all. These things can be done while sounding incredibly reasonable, but to anyone with a couple of neurons they’re still obvious and they are incredibly uncivil.
In our interaction you have oscillated from being an uncivil asshole to just being an obvious debatebro at this point. That’s what’s getting you banned. Being uncivil.
If I post a picture of a swastika and you say “maybe it’s just a windmill!” Then it is entirely reasonable to assume you’re being an asshole, especially if that statement comes alongside the other poor rhetorics you’ve been pulling. Did you swear when you said “maybe it’s just a windmill!”? No, nor did you insult me. But goddamn that is uncivil, thinking other people will fall for that, assuming other people would take that seriously.
And again, the person going “ITS JUST A WINDMILL” might announce they don’t like nazis, but it’s pretty clear by their actions that they do in fact hold them near and dear to their heart to such an extent they are, at the very best, willing to go far beyond reasonable doubt.
Now I suppose it might have been a genuine question, but in that case I gotta say it’s surprising to me you don’t understand your actions exist in the context of your other actions. Acting like an obvious debatebro combined with that makes any reasonable person assume you’re being disingenuous.
Haha, hope your next class is better!
I don’t know the rules about relitigating mod decisions, so let me preface by saying that I am not complaining, not trying to undermine any authority of the mods here, and not trying to claim that any nazi groups are in fact not nazis.
First some corrections: When I asked the mod about the ban, they sent me back the message
along with links to educational resources on nazi symbols and this Ukrainian brigade. So this is about rule 1 of lemmy.ml, not about civility, at least according to them. Second of all, I wasn’t saying anything about the Wolfsangel other than “that’s for sure a Wolfsangel symbol”, as your screenshot shows. I was instead confused about whether the shoulder patch of the 44th division was the number 44 written to look like an SS symbol, or the literal SS symbol. I thought it was the former, but have been corrected through banning and deletion.
Now you claim I am a nazi sympathizer (or an idiot). I don’t consider myself either, but I’m always happy to be corrected. I have no sympathy for Nazi’s, as I say, and I have never defended or supported this Ukrainian group or any other. My question about the symbol was a question about the literal symbol on the blurry picture, not because a 44 made to look like an SS logo means they’re not Nazis, but because it matters whether they have to at least have the thinnest fig leaf to hide that fact behind, or whether they’re full on wearing literal SS symbols. It was meant with good faith only.
I’m sorry you feel like that. I am here to learn, and have been curious about the leap from “Russia should withdraw” to “you should enlist” which was made earlier. My initial comment was maybe pointed, challenging you to clarify an apparent asymmetry in your argument, and you have. I hope that my restatement of your viewpoint have made it clear that I have been listening. If you could point out specifics of uncivil or bad faith behavior, I’d be happy to correct that in the future. Also I’m not sure what a debatebro is, sorry.
If you’re open to critique yourself, I do feel that calling me dense, dickhead and asshole aren’t peak civility, but I don’t really mind.
I’ll write a longer response some time tomorrow probably. I feel like I’m falling for bait, but I know how it is to struggle with communication and I feel bad about possibly having hurt someone purely because they’re ND or in some other way challenged when it comes to communication.
The short answer is that most of your questions can be found answered in between the vitriol I package it in - I find that you retread the same arguments, while acting as if you do not, you receive answers to questions, yet do not engage with them, you try to frame conversation in a way where key parts of the others arguments are left out and you at times seem to be (at the very best) going far beyond reasonable doubt. None of these are reason for derision in themselves, but they occur in a package and they occur in a community that’s used to a bunch of people behaving very much akin to that acting in bad faith. This latter part is sadly not on you, and it is detrimental to the community at times (like the person going off on someone just asking for a source).
I did not consider your initial comment pointed, it was rather how the conversation continued that made me think of you like so.
I changed my mind with your restatement, since with that statement you engaged with my answers and showed interest in continuing the discussion instead of talking in circles.
You are completely correct. I don’t consider myself civil in our interaction, because I consider civility to be a two-way street. When I experience a breakdown in civility, then I reciprocrate. I do not consider that critique, it’s very obvious.
I would not worry about relitigating mod actions, though I’m not a mod, so who knows.
I think the response you got was weird, I don’t know what to do about it. I guess you could contact the mod team and ask.
If you are truly interested in learning then I would want you to reach out to Yogthos (for Russia-Ukraine) or Cowbee (General leftism) instead of me. They are both far more knowledgeable, far more patient and far better teachers than I am. You can just send them a DM and if you’re straightforward about your intentions and your questions, then you should have no isse.