Unchecked overuse is draining and damaging aquifers nationwide, a data investigation by the New York Times revealed, threatening millions of people and America’s status as a food superpower.
So far, desalination has not been a useful solution to the problem. Companies have been trying to create useful desalination plants for decades. The current process is expensive, inefficient, slow and creates toxic residuals. For these reasons, the current technology does not scale up very well at all.
This a really bad take. Seawater deal with RO is a marvel of efficiency, only 2-3 times above the thermodynamic limit of demixing water from salt. It does not really generate toxic waste like coal fired power plants, but does produce lots of brine with various organics (antiscalants, surfactants etc.) that are not that great. The key issue is water is very cheap from traditional sources (surface water and groundwater) and requires rather crude treatment to be usable, resulting in very low cost. Hence why desal is used in areas where they have no choice. If you don’t have surface/ground water source or brackish water source you are doing seawater deal or leave the area…not many choices. At least RO is electrified so it can use renewables but that does not really solve the much higher cost…or issue of brine generation, with zld have a set of it’s own issues costs…
By the same argument, replacing the coal fired power plant with wind and solar wouldn’t pose a challenge either.
The point is, you’ve got to compare apples to apples: either coal power vs. desalinization powered by coal, or renewables vs. desalinization powered by renewables. In every case, the pollution produced by the desalinization process (i.e., the brine etc.) is simply added to the pollution produced by whatever means was used to generate the power for it, which means @soEZ’s attempt to compare desalinization to power generation doesn’t make much sense.
A coal burning plant has a comparisable smaller base of implantation; deactivating the coal plant to have it replaced by a solar or a wind (if even possible) would hardly output the same energy.
By comparison, a desalination plant takes a large area, by the shore, where wind and solar are plentiful, so it can be fitted with such energy source from the start.
The brines can and should be channeled to harvest the salts in it. The salt is raw matter for chemical industry.
It’s amazing how quick we are to find problems to a promising solution but the moment extracting water from surface or underground sources becomes impossible or unfeaseable we will resort to those solutions.
The situation is dire - for us - but the planet is not going to spontaneously combust with us on the surface.
sigh
I am fucking fed up with all the fucking doom and gloom every half shit media outlet burps ou, tailored to stirr panic into everyone and their grandmother.
Everybody is a genius but nobody really has an answer to actually fucking solve anything. Everybody is acting on a pin’s head trying to discover what is going to happen next and in the meanwhile nobody can be bothered to actually do something proactively to enact change, like perhaps voting!
Like it or not, at some point, even for preservation purposes, we will source more of our water from the oceans because it will be that or death.
My country has already transitioned into a fully sustainable power grid, using hydroeletric, solar and wind, and plans to implement more sustainable energy sources is under way. We are also converting a refinery to produce green hydrogen and we’ve already phased out coal, with only a couple of fossil gas plants still in operation. Meanwhile, every sane person is trying their best to make their homes more efficient and even trying to be self reliant on energy, through solar and wind.
We are facing constant droughts and dry spells and public pressure is being put on the government, regardless of color, to implement desalination plants regardless of cost so we can maintain our country alive.
I am fed up with everyone spelling doom and gloom left and right but nobody cares to recognize the small things being done now!
So does everything else and projected to 2050, we are looking at 40-50% renewable penetration. At least it will leverage those renewables. Other desal plants in saudie literally burn fossils to drive distillation for their deal needs, which far away from thermodynamic limit. RO offers a solution that is efficient and can be ran of renewables if the grid offers that…but it comes at high cost.
The bigger issue is we need to look at where and how we use water. Much of how and where we use drinking water and irrigation water does not make much sense. California uses 20% of it’s energy to move water around…and that’s primarily because of agg. Why are we doing agg in a desert environment, why do we waste most of our water irregating grass, etc.
Desalination is really bad alternative to water reuse as well due to simple thermodynamics (dasalting seawater is just energetically expensive relatively to treating secondary effluent with low tds.) but we are too afraid to do direct or indirect reuse even though we drink recycled water… Guess where your drinking water comes from…from river upstream that was drank by extracted by drinking water plant, treated, drank, sent to sewage, treated by waster plant and dumbed back into the river…anyway. End rant…
With enough demand, enough money for R&D will show up to improve the technology.
But regardless the current costs, that did not stop Israel to source all their water from the sea from very early, as well as other countries have for regions where there isn’t enough drinking water available.
In my country, it’s used to supply our islands territories and even by some hotels for pool water.
And the problem with the brine has me scratching my head, as I’ve read sources where the process required chemical treatment of the water and others where it’s stated the process is entirely physical.
I am not using any form of AI or other assistance. I am just old and have a lot of experience writing. Have a look at my post history to see the consistency in my writing style, even when I’m ripping a conservative apart.
I realize I copy/pasted my last line to the beginning instead of cut/paste, so it looks absurd now that I look at it again. I will fix that now.
So far, desalination has not been a useful solution to the problem. Companies have been trying to create useful desalination plants for decades. The current process is expensive, inefficient, slow and creates toxic residuals. For these reasons, the current technology does not scale up very well at all.
This a really bad take. Seawater deal with RO is a marvel of efficiency, only 2-3 times above the thermodynamic limit of demixing water from salt. It does not really generate toxic waste like coal fired power plants, but does produce lots of brine with various organics (antiscalants, surfactants etc.) that are not that great. The key issue is water is very cheap from traditional sources (surface water and groundwater) and requires rather crude treatment to be usable, resulting in very low cost. Hence why desal is used in areas where they have no choice. If you don’t have surface/ground water source or brackish water source you are doing seawater deal or leave the area…not many choices. At least RO is electrified so it can use renewables but that does not really solve the much higher cost…or issue of brine generation, with zld have a set of it’s own issues costs…
Very good to know. Thank you for the updated education.
It generates all the waste associated with the electricity it uses, which is often from coal fired power plants…
Considering the area a desalination plant requires, fitting it with wind and solar would not pose a challenge.
By the same argument, replacing the coal fired power plant with wind and solar wouldn’t pose a challenge either.
The point is, you’ve got to compare apples to apples: either coal power vs. desalinization powered by coal, or renewables vs. desalinization powered by renewables. In every case, the pollution produced by the desalinization process (i.e., the brine etc.) is simply added to the pollution produced by whatever means was used to generate the power for it, which means @soEZ’s attempt to compare desalinization to power generation doesn’t make much sense.
A coal burning plant has a comparisable smaller base of implantation; deactivating the coal plant to have it replaced by a solar or a wind (if even possible) would hardly output the same energy.
By comparison, a desalination plant takes a large area, by the shore, where wind and solar are plentiful, so it can be fitted with such energy source from the start.
The brines can and should be channeled to harvest the salts in it. The salt is raw matter for chemical industry.
It’s amazing how quick we are to find problems to a promising solution but the moment extracting water from surface or underground sources becomes impossible or unfeaseable we will resort to those solutions.
No, you’re just clearly too stupid in history and geology to know that when the groundwater runs out, so does tomorrow. /S
Are we resorting to basic insult, now?
The situation is dire - for us - but the planet is not going to spontaneously combust with us on the surface.
sigh
I am fucking fed up with all the fucking doom and gloom every half shit media outlet burps ou, tailored to stirr panic into everyone and their grandmother.
Everybody is a genius but nobody really has an answer to actually fucking solve anything. Everybody is acting on a pin’s head trying to discover what is going to happen next and in the meanwhile nobody can be bothered to actually do something proactively to enact change, like perhaps voting!
Like it or not, at some point, even for preservation purposes, we will source more of our water from the oceans because it will be that or death.
My country has already transitioned into a fully sustainable power grid, using hydroeletric, solar and wind, and plans to implement more sustainable energy sources is under way. We are also converting a refinery to produce green hydrogen and we’ve already phased out coal, with only a couple of fossil gas plants still in operation. Meanwhile, every sane person is trying their best to make their homes more efficient and even trying to be self reliant on energy, through solar and wind.
We are facing constant droughts and dry spells and public pressure is being put on the government, regardless of color, to implement desalination plants regardless of cost so we can maintain our country alive.
I am fed up with everyone spelling doom and gloom left and right but nobody cares to recognize the small things being done now!
Have nice one and piss off!
Missing that sarcasm tag didn’t help you at all my dude. And it was so big!
So does everything else and projected to 2050, we are looking at 40-50% renewable penetration. At least it will leverage those renewables. Other desal plants in saudie literally burn fossils to drive distillation for their deal needs, which far away from thermodynamic limit. RO offers a solution that is efficient and can be ran of renewables if the grid offers that…but it comes at high cost.
The bigger issue is we need to look at where and how we use water. Much of how and where we use drinking water and irrigation water does not make much sense. California uses 20% of it’s energy to move water around…and that’s primarily because of agg. Why are we doing agg in a desert environment, why do we waste most of our water irregating grass, etc.
Desalination is really bad alternative to water reuse as well due to simple thermodynamics (dasalting seawater is just energetically expensive relatively to treating secondary effluent with low tds.) but we are too afraid to do direct or indirect reuse even though we drink recycled water… Guess where your drinking water comes from…from river upstream that was drank by extracted by drinking water plant, treated, drank, sent to sewage, treated by waster plant and dumbed back into the river…anyway. End rant…
With enough demand, enough money for R&D will show up to improve the technology.
But regardless the current costs, that did not stop Israel to source all their water from the sea from very early, as well as other countries have for regions where there isn’t enough drinking water available.
In my country, it’s used to supply our islands territories and even by some hotels for pool water.
And the problem with the brine has me scratching my head, as I’ve read sources where the process required chemical treatment of the water and others where it’s stated the process is entirely physical.
and how much fossil fuel does Israel use to achieve this?
I think they went nuclear on their power grifld.
that’s better than coal for sure
No argument on that
Thanks, ChatGPT
I am not using any form of AI or other assistance. I am just old and have a lot of experience writing. Have a look at my post history to see the consistency in my writing style, even when I’m ripping a conservative apart.
I realize I copy/pasted my last line to the beginning instead of cut/paste, so it looks absurd now that I look at it again. I will fix that now.
Okay fair, just flagged my brain for the repeated phrase at the beginning and end
When I re-read it after your comment, I could see why you thought that!
Would actually be kinda cool if the prevalence of chatgpt forced everyone to write in a more varied and interesting style to dodge the accusations :)