• lightrush
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      2 years ago

      Even if you believe all of this, it should be obvious that the invasion was an abject failure in contributing towards these goals. There’s more NATO equipment and support around that border now than ever before. There’s even more NATO border incoming that didn’t exist before. Staying, expending more of your people’s lives, public and private capital looks like a really counterproductive thing to do. It’s only making those goals harder to meet longer term.

        • lightrush
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          2 years ago

          What do you mean by even if? Where did I say “therefore the invasion of Ukraine cannot be a failure” or “therefore Russia’s capitalist government will do the best for their people in the long term”? Again, what’s up with all this X and Y cannot be true at the same time.

          Got it.

          You say there is a NATO border incoming. Is this a win for the world population, to be closer to a nuclear war? When two blocks of oligarchies exchange punches, I would say one misses the point when they cheer on the blue-yellow one.

          For the world population, maybe. There’s an argument to be made that a weaker militarily and economically Russia is less likely to decide to throw punches and the punches would be weaker. That might be good for the rest of us people of the world. I simply can’t see any stability emerging from the status quo in Russia in the medium term and so I see it as needing mitigation. The economic development didn’t manage to put enough money and control in the hands of average Russians who could tame punch throwing impulses. 😐 The average Russians will be paying either way.

          There’s a lot of maybes and mights in there. That’s just my view. That said, a whole lot of Europe was a lot more positively inclined towards Russia before the war.

        • @[email protected]
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          12 years ago

          Could easily argue that the winner of the Cold War was the US, considering the USSR collapsed through internal strife and balkanization.

            • @[email protected]
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              2 years ago

              Sure, not because of Chernobyl, the national embarrassment of the failed soviet afghan war, the coup attempt on Gorbachov and the following turmoil causing Moscow to lose influence, followed by many republics declaring independence. but sure, just the profit/market economy

    • @[email protected]
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      152 years ago

      Bro Russia would easily be the wealthiest country in Europe if they weren’t obsessed with being global antagonists. Lmao, they literally say that cringe shit out loud every time they talk about “Anglo Saxons” on Russian media. They know their entire schtick is fucking them over, yet they still do it.

      • lightrush
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        2 years ago

        And if the ruling class didn’t keep obscene amounts of wealth from reaching the average Russian.

    • @Zehzin
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      2 years ago

      I feel like you want to have this argument with someone and, sure, go for it, but I feel like you’re painting OP as the average /r/worldnews poster, and that’s a very rude thing to do. For all I know they might agree with you but the hostility isn’t helping.

      Sorry if this is a little forward or “tone policing”, it just bugged me.

        • @Zehzin
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          2 years ago

          What in OP’s comment did not seem like reddit r/worldnews level to you?

          For starters, they recognized russian people also as exploited victims of the ruling class. Instead of the usual comparing them to orcs or whatever.

          I don’t think it’s productive to argue with a version of someone you came up with. There’s a way to make a point about US foreign policy and capital’s role in the war without mocking people.

    • @[email protected]
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      -11 year ago

      This is pretty much how Bush & USA justified pre-emptive strikes against non-existent WMDs. Russia don’t need to see their neighbors as friendly instead of neutral, and they definitely don’t need to conquer them just in case.