I mean id probably be good if we waited until hs or college to teach gender identity. Middle school or prior is too early, too confusing for kids who have the misfortune (like me) of maturing very early thanks to GMO foods. Sure teach everyone to not impregnate eachother, but stop at biologics with children.
After reading this comment section I will say that the term far-right is misused so much (thanks headline writer). I am someone who, for example, thinks abortion should be legal, yet that we shouldn’t be teaching kids that if their emotions are strong enough that they should commit to cross dressing and surgeries. Not to say the trans community is entirely con artists, only that they should wait until people are closer to adulthood and therefore more mature before they make permanent decisions.
As it sits the trans movements’ momentum relies heavily on indoctrination of kids, and its sad and alarming that these ideas are not as persuasive to older people. We should not stand behind ideologies that make less sense as we mature, especially in publicly funded school systems. We should teach the oldest ideas to the youngest people, not the other way around.
At college though, we should certainly teach the newest ideas to the now older people. Including trans theory
Puberty and maturity are not the same thing. Unfortunately, yes, we have to educate people on sexual matters when their body is ahead of their brain.
That I think is a problem, with a complex solution.
Simply taking the same curriculum that was once meant for 7th graders and teaching it to 5th graders is what has happened in the real world, and I think it was a bad response.
Im sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I don’t think fear is a productive response. Bottom line concentrated chemicals can be dangerous. I don’t think that is in any way controversial.
Do you eat corn, corn syrup, or sugar? Corn chips?
And evidence that endocrine disruptors affects age of puberty:
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/full/10.1289/ehp.1104748#r17
“We estimated an inverse association between urinary 2,5-DCP concentration and age of menarche in girls 12–16 years of age who participated in the NHANES study during 2003–2008. To our knowledge, ours is the first population-based study to report an association between exposure to the putative environmental EDC dichlorobenzene and age of menarche, an outcome that may reflect endocrine-disrupting effects. “
Fear can be good, it stops us doing things that are unnecessarily risky. I apparently hold the controversial opinion that we should treat our bodies better.
Pesticides may have effects on the timing of puberty. But genetic modification is something completely different. GM crops have their own risks (contamination of wild populations, seed monopolies etc.) but as far as I know they do not affect human health.
Not fully, but I browsed through both, and I (mostly) agree with what they are saying. But they are talking about pesticides, not GM organisms. Again, I’m not claiming that there are no issues with GMOs. But pesticides and GMOs are completely different! You cannot show that pesticides cause X and then claim that therefore GMOs cause X.
From my kids schooling, sex ed in early grades focuses on consent (“Don’t touch people if they say no”), acceptance of differences (“Don’t make fun of someone cuz they look/act different”), and acceptance of self (“try to understand your own feelings”).
I haven’t seen anything about pushing an agenda beyond personal autonomy. Can you tell me where you heard about this kind of agenda?
Sure, and the “don’t touch me there, thats my no no square” programming I think is good, and productive.
The issue I have is the ‘later’ grades education. For me (class of 2020) the latest education I received regarding sexual education was in fifth grade, where we were taught absolutely everything. All of the intercourses, all of the anatomy.
There was no follow up, there was no peer to peer discussion, only adults telling us what the world was.
My argument is not that we shouldn’t teach people all about sex and even sexual identities, only that we should teach them later in life, when people feel more confident in standing up to authority, and thinking for themselves.
If a person is gay, lesbian, or trans, they will know, so why do they need to be educated by someone who likely knows less than them? (Aka adult teacher).
Acceptance is a slightly different issue, just as we learn to not point at people with disabilities, all people should learn to not point at someone who cross dresses, and furthermore should try to befriend them, just as in the case of a disabled person
If a person is gay, lesbian, or trans, they will know,
I’m not sure that is the case. Two of my cohort didn’t come out until they were much, much older. One came out as gay in his thirties, the other transitioned in her forties. Both experimented with cis relationships. Both found what they were looking for elsewhere. It took decades to figure that out.
so why do they need to be educated by someone who likely knows less than them?
I think it takes some people a while to figure things out. Especially if it means doing something outside their experience.
I would think that letting kids know about other sexualities early would help them understand why they aren’t interested in what their peers are up to.
the latest education I received regarding sexual education was in fifth grade,
I’m closer to the class of 2000 - I’m surprised that the last round of sex ed you received was only grade 5. I’m pretty sure we got a rundown on straight sex (focusing on STDs/pregnancy/condoms) and a warning about gay sex (AIDS! srsly) in grade five or six, and then a reminder in grade 8 or 9.
There was no follow up, there was no peer to peer discussion, only adults telling us what the world was.
What kind of follow-up would have made sense?
we shouldn’t teach people all about sex and even sexual identities, only that we should teach them later in life, when people feel more confident in standing up to authority, and thinking for themselves
What kind of standing up are you referring to? When I hear “standing up”, I think of people protecting something. Is that what you mean?
I like how you’re arbitrarily setting the line to which we all should believe and follow actual experts and where we should ignore them.
Are there other areas where you know more than professionals with accreditation and decades of experience and are thus best to determine where the line is better than they can?
I mean id probably be good if we waited until hs or college to teach gender identity.
Children are bombarded by gender norms long before they stop using diapers… so you can’t really mean ‘gender identity’ here. Presumably you mean “nobody should learn about transgender identities until high school or maybe college”.
I assume, much like the many people who realize they are gay or lesbian earlier in adolescence, that many transgendered individuals also realize or suspect their gender status early in adolescence as well. It’s rather cruel to hide away information like this at the time when it is especially relevant… just as it would be cruel to not teach about periods until many girls have already started them (another bright inspiration brought to us by social conservatives). Rather than being isolated in the dark, children should be supported as they grow into their own individuals.
Motherfuckers wield the word “indoctrination” like a bludgeon, hoping that nobody notices they’ve been beating down everyone in the world with their own indoctrination since time immemorial.
I think your argument here is essentially, more sooner, more better. This on its face makes sense, as there are people (not you nor I) who are gay, lesbian, or trans from birth and those people ought to be taught how the world has essentially mistreated them.
I don’t think though that that is support. I mean, if you scrape your knee, and someone gives you a lecture on how pavement is harder than flesh and that because of that you were injured then they are not supporting you.
If a person is trans, what they need is no different from what any other person needs. They need to know they are loved. They need to know that they are accepted.
Why is it automatically the default that gay, lesbian, and trans people are automatically “isolated in the dark” if they are not taught about social structures at the ripe age of 10 years old?
Not only is it unlikely that a child would affect our society (so therefore why teach it), but it is even more unlikely that they are mature enough to understand the complexity of what our society is.
We should be teaching kids how to love each other, they shouldn’t need a reason.
If you think sex ed should be delayed until it’s literally TOO FUCKING LATE, then you are actually far right and just don’t admit it. I don’t give a shit what your other beliefs are. “High school or college”? You’re trolling, right?
Do you have any idea how many kids literally kill themselves because nobody ever told them it was actually okay (as in, incredibly common, and not a mental illness or abomination) to feel like that? And those that actually make it through into their twenties and beyond suffer lifelong serious emotional damage just from the ostracization, even IF they decide to conform (some would say especially if).
Your idiotic archaic notions of denying them the power to know and choose for themselves is the real indoctrination, and that shit actually KILLS kids.
I’m certainly conservative, I have denied nothing. I’m not an extremist, but that doesn’t fit into your worldview, therefore not true.
You are a far left bigoted idiot, and I cannot believe that you’re opinion is even real. Chances are that you genuinely are a russian bot here to muck up the conversation.
And as for your stupid point, fact is that more people kill themselves after transitioning, not before. Why is complex, some is external, some is internal, but numbers don’t lie.
Here is your response and my evidence, another has written it:
They do not use numbers, only emotions, if they used numbers, they would have no argument.
From the post:
“There you have it. To be clear:
No, the study does not show that medical transition results in suicide or suicidal ideation. The study explicitly states that such is not the case and those using this study to make that claim are using fallacious logic.
No, the study does not prove that trans women are rapists or likely to be rapists. The “male pattern of criminality” found in the 1973 to 1988 cohort group was not a euphemism for rape.
No, the study does not prove that trans women exhibit male socialization. The “male pattern of criminality” found in the 1973 to 1988 cohort group was not a claim that trans women were convicted of the same types of crime as cis men.”
You will say I can’t read, wrong, I just don’t believe what people say, I believe what they can prove. The numbers say that post transition suicide rates go up, the person who wrote it says the opposite, likely entirely motivated by fear of people like you spreading hate and disinformation.
I agree that we shouldn’t be teaching gender identity until high school or college! Time to ban Barbie Dolls and Action Figures! Since those teach gender identity. We also shouldn’t teach children that their female teaches are Ms. or Mrs. and their male teachers Mr. That’s gender identity too!
I mean id probably be good if we waited until hs or college to teach gender identity. Middle school or prior is too early, too confusing for kids who have the misfortune (like me) of maturing very early thanks to GMO foods. Sure teach everyone to not impregnate eachother, but stop at biologics with children.
After reading this comment section I will say that the term far-right is misused so much (thanks headline writer). I am someone who, for example, thinks abortion should be legal, yet that we shouldn’t be teaching kids that if their emotions are strong enough that they should commit to cross dressing and surgeries. Not to say the trans community is entirely con artists, only that they should wait until people are closer to adulthood and therefore more mature before they make permanent decisions.
As it sits the trans movements’ momentum relies heavily on indoctrination of kids, and its sad and alarming that these ideas are not as persuasive to older people. We should not stand behind ideologies that make less sense as we mature, especially in publicly funded school systems. We should teach the oldest ideas to the youngest people, not the other way around.
At college though, we should certainly teach the newest ideas to the now older people. Including trans theory
This person is an exaple of using logic sounding words to spread hatred.
Flowery words doesn’t change the fact you think trans people are grooming and indoctrinating. Please, shut the fuck up.
💀
@wedleeneeber @grte lol, get stuffed.
Also, GMO foods have nothing to do with the onset of puberty. That’s not how any of this works.
That was my favorite part of their bigoted and idiotic post. They probably fancy themselves as highly intelligent too lol
And if puberty were to set in earlier wouldn’t they need to k.ow sooner rather than later?
Puberty and maturity are not the same thing. Unfortunately, yes, we have to educate people on sexual matters when their body is ahead of their brain. That I think is a problem, with a complex solution. Simply taking the same curriculum that was once meant for 7th graders and teaching it to 5th graders is what has happened in the real world, and I think it was a bad response.
Im sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I don’t think fear is a productive response. Bottom line concentrated chemicals can be dangerous. I don’t think that is in any way controversial.
Here’s that:
https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/index.cfm “Atrazine is one of the most commonly applied herbicides in the world, often used to control weeds in corn, sorghum, and sugarcane crops.”
Do you eat corn, corn syrup, or sugar? Corn chips?
And evidence that endocrine disruptors affects age of puberty:
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/full/10.1289/ehp.1104748#r17 “We estimated an inverse association between urinary 2,5-DCP concentration and age of menarche in girls 12–16 years of age who participated in the NHANES study during 2003–2008. To our knowledge, ours is the first population-based study to report an association between exposure to the putative environmental EDC dichlorobenzene and age of menarche, an outcome that may reflect endocrine-disrupting effects. “
Fear can be good, it stops us doing things that are unnecessarily risky. I apparently hold the controversial opinion that we should treat our bodies better.
:)
Wrong discussion? This one goes off the rails a bit.
Pesticides may have effects on the timing of puberty. But genetic modification is something completely different. GM crops have their own risks (contamination of wild populations, seed monopolies etc.) but as far as I know they do not affect human health.
You did not read what I posted
Not fully, but I browsed through both, and I (mostly) agree with what they are saying. But they are talking about pesticides, not GM organisms. Again, I’m not claiming that there are no issues with GMOs. But pesticides and GMOs are completely different! You cannot show that pesticides cause X and then claim that therefore GMOs cause X.
@wedleeneeber I think you just really need to understand what GMO is and isn’t. Based on what you posted, you don’t have this knowledge.
All of our food is or is made from a GMO
Wow. You love propaganda huh?
Another user insisted I cite a source, like an English teacher. Uck.
Can you cite some of this propaganda that I love?
Do you like Russian, Chinese, or American propaganda most?
From my kids schooling, sex ed in early grades focuses on consent (“Don’t touch people if they say no”), acceptance of differences (“Don’t make fun of someone cuz they look/act different”), and acceptance of self (“try to understand your own feelings”).
I haven’t seen anything about pushing an agenda beyond personal autonomy. Can you tell me where you heard about this kind of agenda?
If I’d have gotten that might not have been assaulted
Wanna bet it was Fox News? They’re not “far-right” though. 🙄
Sure, and the “don’t touch me there, thats my no no square” programming I think is good, and productive.
The issue I have is the ‘later’ grades education. For me (class of 2020) the latest education I received regarding sexual education was in fifth grade, where we were taught absolutely everything. All of the intercourses, all of the anatomy.
There was no follow up, there was no peer to peer discussion, only adults telling us what the world was.
My argument is not that we shouldn’t teach people all about sex and even sexual identities, only that we should teach them later in life, when people feel more confident in standing up to authority, and thinking for themselves.
If a person is gay, lesbian, or trans, they will know, so why do they need to be educated by someone who likely knows less than them? (Aka adult teacher).
Acceptance is a slightly different issue, just as we learn to not point at people with disabilities, all people should learn to not point at someone who cross dresses, and furthermore should try to befriend them, just as in the case of a disabled person
I’m not sure that is the case. Two of my cohort didn’t come out until they were much, much older. One came out as gay in his thirties, the other transitioned in her forties. Both experimented with cis relationships. Both found what they were looking for elsewhere. It took decades to figure that out.
I think it takes some people a while to figure things out. Especially if it means doing something outside their experience.
I would think that letting kids know about other sexualities early would help them understand why they aren’t interested in what their peers are up to.
I’m closer to the class of 2000 - I’m surprised that the last round of sex ed you received was only grade 5. I’m pretty sure we got a rundown on straight sex (focusing on STDs/pregnancy/condoms) and a warning about gay sex (AIDS! srsly) in grade five or six, and then a reminder in grade 8 or 9.
What kind of follow-up would have made sense?
What kind of standing up are you referring to? When I hear “standing up”, I think of people protecting something. Is that what you mean?
I like how you’re arbitrarily setting the line to which we all should believe and follow actual experts and where we should ignore them.
Are there other areas where you know more than professionals with accreditation and decades of experience and are thus best to determine where the line is better than they can?
Children are bombarded by gender norms long before they stop using diapers… so you can’t really mean ‘gender identity’ here. Presumably you mean “nobody should learn about transgender identities until high school or maybe college”.
I assume, much like the many people who realize they are gay or lesbian earlier in adolescence, that many transgendered individuals also realize or suspect their gender status early in adolescence as well. It’s rather cruel to hide away information like this at the time when it is especially relevant… just as it would be cruel to not teach about periods until many girls have already started them (another bright inspiration brought to us by social conservatives). Rather than being isolated in the dark, children should be supported as they grow into their own individuals.
The hiding is done to intentionally harm LBGT kids
Motherfuckers wield the word “indoctrination” like a bludgeon, hoping that nobody notices they’ve been beating down everyone in the world with their own indoctrination since time immemorial.
Right? Like wtf is Sunday school?
I think your argument here is essentially, more sooner, more better. This on its face makes sense, as there are people (not you nor I) who are gay, lesbian, or trans from birth and those people ought to be taught how the world has essentially mistreated them.
I don’t think though that that is support. I mean, if you scrape your knee, and someone gives you a lecture on how pavement is harder than flesh and that because of that you were injured then they are not supporting you.
If a person is trans, what they need is no different from what any other person needs. They need to know they are loved. They need to know that they are accepted.
Why is it automatically the default that gay, lesbian, and trans people are automatically “isolated in the dark” if they are not taught about social structures at the ripe age of 10 years old?
Not only is it unlikely that a child would affect our society (so therefore why teach it), but it is even more unlikely that they are mature enough to understand the complexity of what our society is.
We should be teaching kids how to love each other, they shouldn’t need a reason.
If you think sex ed should be delayed until it’s literally TOO FUCKING LATE, then you are actually far right and just don’t admit it. I don’t give a shit what your other beliefs are. “High school or college”? You’re trolling, right?
Do you have any idea how many kids literally kill themselves because nobody ever told them it was actually okay (as in, incredibly common, and not a mental illness or abomination) to feel like that? And those that actually make it through into their twenties and beyond suffer lifelong serious emotional damage just from the ostracization, even IF they decide to conform (some would say especially if).
Your idiotic archaic notions of denying them the power to know and choose for themselves is the real indoctrination, and that shit actually KILLS kids.
I’m certainly conservative, I have denied nothing. I’m not an extremist, but that doesn’t fit into your worldview, therefore not true.
You are a far left bigoted idiot, and I cannot believe that you’re opinion is even real. Chances are that you genuinely are a russian bot here to muck up the conversation.
And as for your stupid point, fact is that more people kill themselves after transitioning, not before. Why is complex, some is external, some is internal, but numbers don’t lie.
Here is your response and my evidence, another has written it:
https://www.transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm
They do not use numbers, only emotions, if they used numbers, they would have no argument.
From the post: “There you have it. To be clear:
No, the study does not show that medical transition results in suicide or suicidal ideation. The study explicitly states that such is not the case and those using this study to make that claim are using fallacious logic. No, the study does not prove that trans women are rapists or likely to be rapists. The “male pattern of criminality” found in the 1973 to 1988 cohort group was not a euphemism for rape. No, the study does not prove that trans women exhibit male socialization. The “male pattern of criminality” found in the 1973 to 1988 cohort group was not a claim that trans women were convicted of the same types of crime as cis men.”
You will say I can’t read, wrong, I just don’t believe what people say, I believe what they can prove. The numbers say that post transition suicide rates go up, the person who wrote it says the opposite, likely entirely motivated by fear of people like you spreading hate and disinformation.
Fuck off, dipshit.
I agree that we shouldn’t be teaching gender identity until high school or college! Time to ban Barbie Dolls and Action Figures! Since those teach gender identity. We also shouldn’t teach children that their female teaches are Ms. or Mrs. and their male teachers Mr. That’s gender identity too!