Oh fuck off. For all you know it could have been a cry for help, and when no one helped, he followed through. A crowd of people had formed on the beach ffs, if you’re depressed and you realize there’s a whole crowd waiting for you to die, that’s going to fucking suck.
Bad form are the “public safety” officials, the legal system, and all of the bystanders that did nothing. Bad form is your lackadaisical response to this tragedy, as if it’s okay to just shrug off someone’s life as “mission accomplished”. Shame on them, and shame on you.
Bad form are the “public safety” officials, the legal system, and all of the bystanders that did nothing
I’d like to point out that several civilian bystanders prepped to go out and help him, only to be told by the police to not enter the water. Even once he collapsed, it was a young civilian woman ignoring police orders who entered the water a retrieved his body.
Even once he collapsed, it was a young civilian woman ignoring police orders who entered the water a retrieved his body.
I’d also like to point out that they only waited until the guy collapsed (and ultimately drowned) before someone actually did something, despite being told not to do it.
That’s assuming they were there the whole time? Also, it’s pretty well known that people are susceptible to the bystander effect, especially when someone of perceived higher authority is at the scene.
So excuses for the trained first responders, blame the victim, and then blame the untrained bystanders who attempted to help? Is that how you want to frame this picture?
The civilians didn’t fail him, the first responder system did. If the first responders would have taken action he’d be fine, if the first responders weren’t at the scene the civilians would have saved him.
This situation happened because the people who are paid to help chose not too.
No, no. I would never blame Raymond Zack - or anyone in his position. Never. Anybody who contemplates or ideates suicide is someone who needs our upmost attention and seriousness. For someone to actively start the process, regardless of intention, deserves it even more so.
I understand the emotional reaction people are giving me. It’s sad when someone leaves us.
He was wading… he could have walked back at any time, with no issue. Individuals from the shore who go out to him could get involved in a struggle and drown, so I understand why first responders didn’t wade out with rescue line like they would with someone trapped in a flood.
He was wading… he could have walked back at any time, with no issue.
Spoken like someone who’s never helped anyone during a mental health crisis.
Individuals from the shore who go out to him could get involved in a struggle and drown
That is the same exact risk that anyone trying to prevent a drowning faces. Anyone with basic water rescue training knows that they have to expect to struggle with the person they are rescuing.
I understand why first responders didn’t wade out with rescue line like they would with someone trapped in a flood.
Why are we forced to pay for these people’s jobs, if there’s no consequence of them not doing their jobs? If you don’t want a job that forces you to endanger your health for the sake of others…don’t become a fist responder.
That is the same exact risk that anyone trying to prevent a drowning faces.
You’re negating the fact that non-suicidal people being rescued will not actively try to harm you or prevent their own rescue once the panic subsides. Many people in this thread do not understand the risk a rescuer would face in this situation. Your first duty is ALWAYS to your own safety so that, at minimum, you don’t compound the problem.
You’re negating the fact that non-suicidal people being rescued will not actively try to harm you or prevent their own rescue once the panic subsides
I’m guessing you have zero experience or training on this subject? Drowning people usually don’t stop panicking until they loose consciousness, or are back on land and have stopped hyperventilating. You literally just put them in a headlock and something to grab at that isn’t you.
You are also conflating suicidal behavior with homicidal behavior, just because someone is having a mental health crisis doesn’t mean they are inherently violent.
I feel for the guy, and the agencies didn’t exactly coordinate well, but he was the one who wanted to die… so mission accomplished.
Bad form for his family to sue.
Oh fuck off. For all you know it could have been a cry for help, and when no one helped, he followed through. A crowd of people had formed on the beach ffs, if you’re depressed and you realize there’s a whole crowd waiting for you to die, that’s going to fucking suck.
Bad form are the “public safety” officials, the legal system, and all of the bystanders that did nothing. Bad form is your lackadaisical response to this tragedy, as if it’s okay to just shrug off someone’s life as “mission accomplished”. Shame on them, and shame on you.
I’d like to point out that several civilian bystanders prepped to go out and help him, only to be told by the police to not enter the water. Even once he collapsed, it was a young civilian woman ignoring police orders who entered the water a retrieved his body.
I’d also like to point out that they only waited until the guy collapsed (and ultimately drowned) before someone actually did something, despite being told not to do it.
That’s assuming they were there the whole time? Also, it’s pretty well known that people are susceptible to the bystander effect, especially when someone of perceived higher authority is at the scene.
Yes. And? That’s why they failed him.
So excuses for the trained first responders, blame the victim, and then blame the untrained bystanders who attempted to help? Is that how you want to frame this picture?
The civilians didn’t fail him, the first responder system did. If the first responders would have taken action he’d be fine, if the first responders weren’t at the scene the civilians would have saved him.
This situation happened because the people who are paid to help chose not too.
You think I’m blaming the victim?
No, no. I would never blame Raymond Zack - or anyone in his position. Never. Anybody who contemplates or ideates suicide is someone who needs our upmost attention and seriousness. For someone to actively start the process, regardless of intention, deserves it even more so.
I speak from personal experience.
I understand the emotional reaction people are giving me. It’s sad when someone leaves us.
He was wading… he could have walked back at any time, with no issue. Individuals from the shore who go out to him could get involved in a struggle and drown, so I understand why first responders didn’t wade out with rescue line like they would with someone trapped in a flood.
Spoken like someone who’s never helped anyone during a mental health crisis.
That is the same exact risk that anyone trying to prevent a drowning faces. Anyone with basic water rescue training knows that they have to expect to struggle with the person they are rescuing.
Why are we forced to pay for these people’s jobs, if there’s no consequence of them not doing their jobs? If you don’t want a job that forces you to endanger your health for the sake of others…don’t become a fist responder.
You’re negating the fact that non-suicidal people being rescued will not actively try to harm you or prevent their own rescue once the panic subsides. Many people in this thread do not understand the risk a rescuer would face in this situation. Your first duty is ALWAYS to your own safety so that, at minimum, you don’t compound the problem.
I’m guessing you have zero experience or training on this subject? Drowning people usually don’t stop panicking until they loose consciousness, or are back on land and have stopped hyperventilating. You literally just put them in a headlock and something to grab at that isn’t you.
You are also conflating suicidal behavior with homicidal behavior, just because someone is having a mental health crisis doesn’t mean they are inherently violent.