Dear lemmy, someone very close to my heart is starting to fall into conspiracy theories. It’s heartbreaking. Among other things, he has now told me that soy beans are not supposed to be consumed by human beings and is convinced that despite the literal centuries of human soy bean cultivation and consumption, we shouldn’t eat it or anything derived from it for this reason (ie tofu, soy sauce, etc…evidence that soy is present in other common foods doesn’t seem to register with him).
I don’t even know where he got this information from and can’t find a single source to back it up (even disingenuously). I’ve tried explaining to him that sure, in its original state it’s not edible, but undergoes processing (LIKE MANY OTHER FOODS) to become edible. And that this has gone on since at least the 11th century, so it’s not like Big Soy is trying to poison the little people.
He’s normally a very reasonable and intelligent person, and I don’t know how to reach him. I thought it might be helpful to show him where these myths have come from with hard data sources to prove it. He seems open to the possibility, so I don’t think he’s a lost cause yet!
Help?
Here’s my (fallible) understanding of the nugget of truth behind the soy nonsense.
Plants contain something called phytoestrogen. It has a similar shape and function in plants to estrogen in humans. Soy contains a lot of it.
However, since it is made of different chemicals to estrogen it does not act like estrogen in humans.
Still, because it has the word “estrogen” in it, a lot of idiots think it will cause you to become weak and grow tits if you eat soy. You know, like a woman. Hence the “soyboy” memes and the use of the term as an insult, mostly by woman-hating alt-right goons.
It’s possible your friend is covertly falling for the fallacy, or perhaps their concern is several times removed; i.e. they fell for someone’s lie based on a lie based on a lie based on bigotry.
Fun fact, dairy milk actually contains proper estrogen, like all the lactations of mamals.
So you really expect me to believe a lactating woman produces hormones?
Not just woman but also lactating cow, camel, goat, cat, dog, monkey… unbelievable right.
What about argonians?
Depends, what is their profession? Are they “lusty”?
Don’t know about their milk, but they surely knead some great dough.
Snitties aren’t a thing with reptiles.
This is more complicated, as is often the case. The phytoestrogen in soy does have similar effects on people as human estrogen, and the effects can be rather positive (regulation of weight and better insuline sensitivity). Source here.
The same review mentions potencial negative effects and concerns: “In adult male rats, exposure to dietary soy decreased androgen levels and prostate weight.” and “In humans, the use of soy or purified phytoestrogens in women at high risk of, or diagnosed with, breast cancer as well as in infants fed with soy-based formula are legitimate areas of concern.”
Both beneficial and adverse effects of soy seem to be understudied. For more information about soy phytoestrogens and both male and female fertility, check out this article.
Which one? Soy or purified phytoestrogens?
Sentences constructed like that can easily be weaponized.
It’s a review based on a number of scientific papers that research either one or the other. I think based on the results of the studies the authors decided it was safe to write about both phytoestrogen contained in whole soy and the purified one, because the concerns connectedto both these things are similar. I think that’s legitimate.
I would take that to be “use of either soy or purified phytoestrogens”.
Impossible, @Heavybell assured my it’s a conspiracy theory peddled by woman-hating alt-right goons
Come on, people, what’s up with the downvotes? This is a very obvious /s and I appreciate it as a response :)
Sir, we’re on the internet discussing conspiracy theories. About if a extremely common condiments and milk substitution ingredients, can turn you into a woman. There is nothing like a obvious s.
But I do admit I did also really like the response and it does fall closer to the obvious s than some other ones, but you really can’t be to sure this days.
I got told to be careful of soy milk once by a conspiracy theorist buddy. Said it’ll turn me into a woman.
Hundred percent this conspiracy theory has bigoted roots.
This was going to be my guess too. I’ve heard the “soy contains estrogen and can screw up your body if you eat too much.” nonsense.
I hate when people say stuff like that as they drink their 4th can of Coca-Cola of the day.
Mix that together with that soy often is involved in meat replacements for vegans, and the alt-right idea that eating meat is manly, preferably while mixed with beer and cigarettes.
The first time I saw headlines on the internet about this, I wasn’t sure what to think. I was hanging out with a friend and I saw him put soy milk in his coffee. I asked him if he’d seen the news about estrogen. He hadn’t. I related it as best I could, and he listened, giving me some pretty skeptical side eye.
I closed with “I dunno, if it’s something you put in your body every single day it might be worth finding out more. Before, you know…”
“IT WORKS JUST FINE,” he said, and that was the end of that conversation!
I mean, you’re not wrong. And someone else replying suggested maybe soy does have some effect. However I feel like the MtF trans community would be up in arms with joy if they could just drink soy milk instead of taking estrogen pills, plus we’d probably have heard something from asian countries where soy is consumed a lot more if it was that bad for you.