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- cross-posted to:
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Judge has ruled that Donald Trump committed fraud for years while building the real estate empire that catapulted him to fame and the White House.
Judge Arthur Engoron, ruling Tuesday in a civil lawsuit brought by New York’s attorney general, found that the former president and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used in making deals and securing financing.
So why the hell is this a civil suit rather than a criminal one?? Last I checked, bank fraud, insurance fraud, and other fraud are all illegal crimes that are against the law!
Not that I don’t agree with you, but I just want to point out that not all cases of breaking the law are criminal. For example, if you run a red light, a cop won’t throw you in jail for it. You’ll get a fine, though.
Of course, what Trump did should put him in jail.
But seeing his empire dismantle must be more devastating to his ego than the possibility of prison.
Fraud is a crime that can come with jail time though.
Traffic violations such as that are considered civil offences, not criminal ones. Trump keeps being found guilty of federal crimes in civil courts. There’s no way that someone less rich and powerful would get the same treatment.
You have a point. If I keep running red lights, even after paying fines and having my license suspended, I will be thrown in jail.
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Only if you’re a poor.
I am also confused. Why does the attorney general put forward a civil suit in the first place? Civil court is for parties to seek damages or the other party to do or stop doing actions against contractual obligations.
Or did Trump defraud the city of New York and it is seeking compensation?
Yeah, some of the “other fraud” is tax fraud, so in a very real and direct sense, he defrauded New York. Still doesn’t make sense for it to be a civil suit rather than a criminal one, though.
Must be nice to be rich and powerful enough for your decades of major crimes to count as civil infractions 😮💨
Quite simple. Civil liability standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence, which is far less than the standard of proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal.
The type of suit depends on the type of law violated and the type of injured party. Civil law vs criminal law, etc.
They could potentially bring a related criminal suit later. I’m not an attorney, and there are a lot of specific rules about, but the stakes are lower in a civil case (i.e. no prison) and the burden of proof is easier, so you can more easily prove things or get the defense to admit things in a civil case that can sometimes make a criminal case easier.
Even if you can’t cite the civil case from the criminal case, just the fact that the civil case ruled one way gives the prosecution confidence to commit to a criminal case and leverage if they negotiate a settlement.
Fair enough. I’m gonna be pessimistic in stead of completely dismissive about the possibility of him seeing significant consequences, then 😁
Could be due to the lower threshold for evidence (preponderance vs. beyond a reasonable doubt). Though I would imagine there’s tons of evidence of this since it’s been going on for 4 decades.
Just FYI, but Trump has been involved with 4,095 lawsuits during his career.
This is a major on though.
https://www.azcentral.com/pages/interactives/trump-lawsuits/
Answer to the question you asked: what he’s technically accused of here is defrauding someone and the law will err on the side of “making the aggrieved party whole” (forcing him to give back what he stole) in these cases. After all, if someone ran off with all your money today would you be happier if the government hurt that person or if they made that person give it back to you. Someone steals my money no jail sentence is gonna satisfy me as much as being able to pay my mortgage.
Answer to the question you meant to ask: Takes less evidence to get a civil suit to court, and in the process of prosecuting the civil suit you can get subpoenas for evidence and testimony that can lead to criminal indictments. This is basically getting a foot in the door to look at his taxes, his accounting records and everything else. Wouldn’t be shocked at all if there are criminal indictments on the way.