The Grace Hopper Celebration is meant to unite women in tech. This year droves of men came looking for jobs.

The Grace Hopper Celebration is meant to unite women in tech. This year droves of men came looking for jobs.

  • @[email protected]English
    30•1 year ago

    I don’t support the actions of men in this article, but all gender roles are toxic, and there are societal expectations of men that are genuinely toxic.

    Again, women have gotten the shit end of the stick for muuuuch longer. I don’t want to minimize that. But saying mens rights activists are pathetic?

    60% of male suicides report no off behavior from the man before commiting suicide. This suggests it isn’t a mental illness causing the problem, but circumstances in their life cause them to kill themself because they truly see no other solution or way out for the predicament they’re in.

    How come men are twice as likely to be homeless than women?

    Why isn’t it socially acceptable for men to take on the “care taker roll” like a stay at home dad or a nurse?

    I could go on, but I don’t want to make this a rallying cry for men in a thread about a tech conference for women. I get meninsts is like a men’s rights group that was created to troll feminists, but men’s rights and woman’s rights should both just try and be egalitarian

    • @[email protected]English
      1•1 year ago

      Yeah, that’s feminism, not “men’s rights”. There are non-toxic sections of the Men’s Movement which explicitly recognise that their aims are feminist but they’re almost invisible because they got overrun by toxic men who only wanted to blame all their problems on women and reclaim their right to rape and exploit them.

      This article is not perfect but it does make the point well:

      Part Four: A List of “Men’s Rights” Issues That Feminism Is Already Working On

      Feminists do not want you to lose custody of your children. The assumption that women are naturally better caregivers is part of patriarchy.

      Feminists do not like commercials in which bumbling dads mess up the laundry and competent wives have to bustle in and fix it. The assumption that women are naturally better housekeepers is part of patriarchy.

      Feminists do not want you to have to make alimony payments. Alimony is set up to combat the fact that women have been historically expected to prioritize domestic duties over professional goals, thus minimizing their earning potential if their “traditional” marriages end. The assumption that wives should make babies instead of money is part of patriarchy.

      Feminists do not want anyone to get raped in prison. Permissiveness and jokes about prison rape are part of rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.

      Feminists do not want anyone to be falsely accused of rape. False rape accusations discredit rape victims, which reinforces rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.

      Feminists do not want you to be lonely and we do not hate “nice guys.” The idea that certain people are inherently more valuable than other people because of superficial physical attributes is part of patriarchy.

      Feminists do not want you to have to pay for dinner. We want the opportunity to achieve financial success on par with men in any field we choose (and are qualified for), and the fact that we currently don’t is part of patriarchy. The idea that men should coddle and provide for women, and/or purchase their affections in romantic contexts, is condescending and damaging and part of patriarchy.

      Feminists do not want you to be maimed or killed in industrial accidents, or toil in coal mines while we do cushy secretarial work and various yarn-themed activities. The fact that women have long been shut out of dangerous industrial jobs (by men, by the way) is part of patriarchy.

      Feminists do not want you to commit suicide. Any pressures and expectations that lower the quality of life of any gender are part of patriarchy. The fact that depression is characterized as an effeminate weakness, making men less likely to seek treatment, is part of patriarchy.

      Feminists do not want you to be viewed with suspicion when you take your child to the park (men frequently insist that this is a serious issue, so I will take them at their word). The assumption that men are insatiable sexual animals, combined with the idea that it’s unnatural for men to care for children, is part of patriarchy.

      Feminists do not want you to be drafted and then die in a war while we stay home and iron stuff. The idea that women are too weak to fight or too delicate to function in a military setting is part of patriarchy.

      Feminists do not want women to escape prosecution on legitimate domestic violence charges, nor do we want men to be ridiculed for being raped or abused. The idea that women are naturally gentle and compliant and that victimhood is inherently feminine is part of patriarchy.

      Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.

      If you really care about those issues as passionately as you say you do, you should be thanking feminists, because feminism is a social movement actively dedicated to dismantling every single one of them. The fact that you blame feminists—your allies—for problems against which they have been struggling for decades suggests that supporting men isn’t nearly as important to you as resenting women. We care about your problems a lot. Could you try caring about ours?

      • @[email protected]English
        10•1 year ago

        This list comes across as very self-serving though. It’s basically saying men’s issues are only a problem for Feminism when it can be framed as also impacting women. I read the parent poster as calling for rising above a narrow single gender view of equal rights.

        • AdaEnglish
          6•1 year ago

          It’s basically saying men’s issues are only a problem for Feminism when it can be framed as also impacting women.

          Well yes. Feminism is focused on the specific forms of inequality that women and folk perceived as women face.

          However, the root cause of that inequality often creates issues for everyone, not just women. So feminism isn’t “at odds” with mens rights, but rather, addressing the issues that women face will improve issues for men too, because of those shared root causes.

        • @[email protected]English
          5•1 year ago

          Sexism is inevitably a mirror. Treating girls and women differently inevitably has an impact on boys and men.

          If you can think of a legitimate demand to improve life for boys and men which is not also a feminist issue, name it.

          If you’re complaining that feminists aren’t backing up Men’s Rights Activists when they call for the right to rape and enserf women, then I can’t help you.

      • @[email protected]English
        4•1 year ago

        I agree with everything you posted, by why are the egalitarian ideals of feminism strictly a feminism thing and not a men’s rights / men’s movement. Or why not just label it “egalitarian”. Why does the label matter in the first place? If someone’s behavior is a demonstration they’re a hypocrite to feminist/men’s movement/egalitarian ideals, then critique the individual when it happens. Why generalize their behavior to the group as a whole?

        • Ragnell
          10•1 year ago

          Because the assholes got to “men’s rights” “men’s movement” en masse, and you’ll spend your whole life critiquing individuals and find communities full of those individuals when you see those words.

      • @derf82English
        -2•1 year ago

        Amazing the way everything can be twisted to be all men’s fault.

      • JasSmith
        -12•1 year ago

        Yeah, that’s feminism, not “men’s rights”.

        No, that’s men’s rights. Feminism has done great things for women, and that’s awesome. But feminism is by women, for women. It doesn’t make any space for men’s issues. That’s why the men’s rights movement exists.

        • @NightAuthorEnglish
          10•1 year ago

          Did you read any of the quoted article?

          • JasSmith
            -3•1 year ago

            You quoted a Jezebel article. Would you read an article I quoted from Andrew Tate? Don’t insult our intelligence please.

            • @NightAuthorEnglish
              1•1 year ago

              Ok, well I’ll make the point they’re making. Since you apparently will read what I say.

              What’s good for women is good for everyone. Fighting toxic masculinity and the patriarchy is ultimately beneficial to all genders.

              • JasSmith
                -2•1 year ago

                What’s good for women is good for everyone.

                While true, what’s good for men is also good for everyone. Inasmuch, we should also be working to address major systemic issues men face.