I don’t disagree about the overuse of light grey/white, but it’s really irrelevant to what I said.
My entire point from the very start, the point that you’re replying to, was about the differences in shades of gray, be that from calibration or design choice lol.
If a screen is so badly calibrated that dark grey is coming out substantially lighter then it’s probably going to doing something similar to black.
From my experience of using screens like this for years, no, it doesn’t. Black is black. Gray varies by screen, and more importantly, by web dev.
No developer ponders what shade of black to use, it’s 000000. Gray… Not quite as clear cut.
It feels like we’re arguing semantics for the sake of it, you’re entitled to your opinion, as am I. You misinterpreted what I meant from the start, maybe I could have been more explicit. Whatever the case, have a good evening.
It felt like you kept trying to reframe what you actually said rather than admit to being mistaken. You bemoaned the choice of grey/white over black/white. I pointed out studies showing dark grey/white to be objectively better - and rather than say “mb I meant light grey specifically”, you tried to BS about dark grey being rendered as light grey, and black always appearing black - based solely on your own experience. It’s cool - I’m done. Have a good evening.
I mean, I wasn’t mistaken, you drew false conclusions from what I said from the offset, then dug your heals in when I made it crystal clear what was meant, time and time again. Anyway.
You said grey/white causes more eye strain than black/white. I posted a study showing black/white is worse than dark grey/white, and you’ve danced around the whole thing ever since. But sure - I’m the one digging my heels in.
Yep, that’s right, you drew false conclusions from the start, in that I was referring to the same shade of gray as in the study; which, incidentally, was far more focused on light background & dark text vs dark background & light text, than it was black text vs gray text, so it wasn’t even really relevant to begin with.
“However, black text on white background represented a severe overstimulation of the OFF channels”
And yes, the study does refer to the opposite:
“while white text on black background overstimulated the ON channels”
And
“Note that reading white text on black background (ON stimulus, denoted in green) causes choroidal thickening while black text on white background caused choroidal thinning”
…
"Since choroidal thickness changes are precursors for future changes in eye growth, we expect that there will be selective effects on subsequent myopia development.
So black/white causes overstimulation (visual discomfort) and this could be causing future eye health problems.
This overstimulation is well known and understood and is why more knowledgeable web developers etc., understanding that too much contrast literally harms readability, choose something with slightly less contrast - like dark grey/white.
But you can go ahead and frame it however you like. If you’re going to continue reframing and outright lying* then there’s no point in having a discussion with you. You clearly have difficulty coming to terms with being wrong - which is really quite sad.
*You denied used anecdotal evidence for some wild, easily disproved, assertions (black is always always black), then confirmed a couple of comments later that this was based on your own years of experience - which I’m now strongly suspecting was also BS.
Yeeeah, I’ll be honest, I’ve lost interest in this conversation a long time ago, you’re adamant that you’re right, even to the point of telling me what I meant when you misinterpreted it.
So yep fine, you must be right, I must be wrong.
Have a fantastic day in full knowledge that I completely, wholeheartedly agree with everything that you’ve said, and take back everything that I’ve said.
Gray on white, regardless of shade, is infinitely better than black on white. Atan said so.
My entire point from the very start, the point that you’re replying to, was about the differences in shades of gray, be that from calibration or design choice lol.
From my experience of using screens like this for years, no, it doesn’t. Black is black. Gray varies by screen, and more importantly, by web dev.
No developer ponders what shade of black to use, it’s 000000. Gray… Not quite as clear cut.
You said “White background & gray text” in your original post - not light grey.
“From my experience of using screens like this for years”
Literally anecdotal. Search for “washed out black screen” - countless examples of black appearing grey.
“No developer ponders what shade of black to use”
And the evidence shows that if it’s on a white background, they should be pondering what else to use.
I agree that web developers/designers should be better informed about this - but the trend is probably in the right direction.
It feels like we’re arguing semantics for the sake of it, you’re entitled to your opinion, as am I. You misinterpreted what I meant from the start, maybe I could have been more explicit. Whatever the case, have a good evening.
It felt like you kept trying to reframe what you actually said rather than admit to being mistaken. You bemoaned the choice of grey/white over black/white. I pointed out studies showing dark grey/white to be objectively better - and rather than say “mb I meant light grey specifically”, you tried to BS about dark grey being rendered as light grey, and black always appearing black - based solely on your own experience. It’s cool - I’m done. Have a good evening.
I mean, I wasn’t mistaken, you drew false conclusions from what I said from the offset, then dug your heals in when I made it crystal clear what was meant, time and time again. Anyway.
You said grey/white causes more eye strain than black/white. I posted a study showing black/white is worse than dark grey/white, and you’ve danced around the whole thing ever since. But sure - I’m the one digging my heels in.
Yep, that’s right, you drew false conclusions from the start, in that I was referring to the same shade of gray as in the study; which, incidentally, was far more focused on light background & dark text vs dark background & light text, than it was black text vs gray text, so it wasn’t even really relevant to begin with.
Glad we finally agree!
It’s right there in the study:
“However, black text on white background represented a severe overstimulation of the OFF channels”
And yes, the study does refer to the opposite:
“while white text on black background overstimulated the ON channels”
And
“Note that reading white text on black background (ON stimulus, denoted in green) causes choroidal thickening while black text on white background caused choroidal thinning”
…
"Since choroidal thickness changes are precursors for future changes in eye growth, we expect that there will be selective effects on subsequent myopia development.
So black/white causes overstimulation (visual discomfort) and this could be causing future eye health problems.
This overstimulation is well known and understood and is why more knowledgeable web developers etc., understanding that too much contrast literally harms readability, choose something with slightly less contrast - like dark grey/white.
But you can go ahead and frame it however you like. If you’re going to continue reframing and outright lying* then there’s no point in having a discussion with you. You clearly have difficulty coming to terms with being wrong - which is really quite sad.
*You denied used anecdotal evidence for some wild, easily disproved, assertions (black is always always black), then confirmed a couple of comments later that this was based on your own years of experience - which I’m now strongly suspecting was also BS.
Yeeeah, I’ll be honest, I’ve lost interest in this conversation a long time ago, you’re adamant that you’re right, even to the point of telling me what I meant when you misinterpreted it.
So yep fine, you must be right, I must be wrong.
Have a fantastic day in full knowledge that I completely, wholeheartedly agree with everything that you’ve said, and take back everything that I’ve said.
Gray on white, regardless of shade, is infinitely better than black on white. Atan said so.