Actual regular people haven’t accepted it as normal. Fascists in our country continue to hamstring any efforts to fix the situation because they want the rest of us to keep being reminded that the fascists can and will murder us at will. Standard issue stochastic terrorism.
My kids’ school recently had an active shooter drill like we used to do fire drills when I was a kid. They said they all had hiding spots to go to and they thought it was pretty scary. They’re in elementary school. It’s definitely not normal that instead of doing something about the guns we have to teach kids to hide from gunmen because that’s just a legit possibility now.
Well maybe my school was the outlier that didn’t have active shooter drills but that makes it even worse that it’s been 30+ years and nothing has changed. It should NOT be normal to have to prepare elementary kids to hide from an active shooter in their school.
Uh? 2023-(late)1990s… = ~25… Please god don’t make me older than I am… I just can’t take that today.
and nothing has changed.
But it has, MORE schools do it now. So it’s even MORE normal now.
It should NOT be normal to have to prepare elementary kids to hide from an active shooter in their school.
This is a different statement than before. I agree that it should not have to be a normal thing… But unfortunately that’s what it is. But it’s not gun policies that make this the normal. If we want to talk specifically about school shootings… It doesn’t seem that legislation on gun bans alone have made any difference.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/school-shootings-by-state
California is by far the worst state for school shootings, and has what amounts to the strictest laws in all of the USA.
It is entirely possible that the timelines for their introductions were different.
Also it is only more worrying that the problem is left unadressed since 25 years. Again nothing should be normal about school children having to learn how to hide from someone with a gun trying to kill as many of them as possible.
The US truly seems like a failed state from the outside.
And what EU country is rolling in success right now?
If you’re going to walk into a conversation and the only thing you have to add is “The US truly seems like a failed state from the outside.” You’re not actually going to further that conversation at all.
Also it is only more worrying that the problem is left unadressed since 25 years.
What is unaddressed? What problem do you think exists here? Every time I see this argument it’s always stupidly phrased. The UK has lower rates therefore it must be gun control…
Notice something? It’s South America that’s completely fucked. If we ban guns in the US… nothing stops that shit from proliferating into the USA on the southern border. Our issues are more handled with better border controls and increase mental welfare. Most violence that happens here is gang violence.
But for one moment let’s look at this list. Notice the British Virgin Islands place on this list… Very similar controls to Britain proper… but has a 2 point higher rate than the USA…
The issue of school shootings, and other acts of violence with the sole intent to kill random people. These things happen about once in a decade in most western countries.
In the US they happen all the fucking time. Especially that people go out of their way to murder a bunch of elementary kids is something happening extremely rarely in other countries.Not so in the US.
In no point did i argue about the particular reasons or solutions, but it is evident that the US is really fucked up in this regard.
The issue of school shootings, and other acts of violence with the sole intent to kill random people. These things happen about once in a decade in most western countries.
Uhh… I already addressed this… The link, if you had read it shows homicide rates per country. Sort by rate, look where your country is compared to the USA… then compared to some other “western” countries. Sort by Region/Subregion… Allow yourself to think about why the US might have problems. The US does have higher rates… The EU itself is surrounded
In no point did i argue about the particular reasons or solutions,
Correct, and I never said you did. I said that the argument I always hear from people who make claims like the USA is fucked up is bullshit. Showing an example of a country over here that’s ruled by Britain with British law, doing significantly worse than the USA does. Almost like it’s different over here. Probably because the EU is buffered from the third world countries… while the USA is definitely not.
but it is evident that the US is really fucked up in this regard.
It’s really not. But see, you never elaborated on what is “unaddressed” either. So there’s no way to further this discussion is there?
You cannot use overall homicide rates as an indicator for mass shootings.Of course a high homicide rate is a problem in itself, vut it is a different quality, when two drug gangs shoot each other up over a deal gone wrong than someone just running into a school killing two dozen kids
My friend’s daughter is in elementary school and an active shooter came into the school. Nobody died, but later he bought her a bulletproof backpack designed for AR-15 rounds (223). But the backpack was so heavy she couldn’t carry books in it. So instead he opted for handgun rounds protection, which isn’t ideal but it’s something.
As an American, I think the moment I said “which one” when asked if I had heard about the mass shooting in wherever it was I can’t even remember now, that was when I realized how fucked our gun policies are.
What else is there to do but accept it? It isn’t like our politicians have the will to do anything about it. Peaceful protest falls on deaf ears. The gun crazies would gladly die in a blaze of glory rather than be disarmed. The country is awash in guns and ammunition. So please do tell, oh wise outsider, what the hell a normal person is supposed to do about it?
Peaceful protests? There are less peaceful protests for gun control than shootings. Maybe start there.
But I agree the US seems beyond screwed in that regard. NRA is too powerful, the two party system is stuck on the far right and society is divided into extremist views by propaganda and social media.
So maybe leave the country? That’s what I’d do I think.
There are fewer protests these days because people are catching on that they don’t accomplish dick. As to leaving, people have families. Not just their immediate family but think aunts, uncles, cousins. It’s not trivial to leave all that behind and move somewhere where you know no one and have no support structure, and maybe you don’t even speak the language. And to even consider it, you’ve got to have the time and money to expend on moving, and your destination country has to agree to let you in. It’s not a simple undertaking.
It’s not simple at all, I absolutely agree. And leaving family behind sucks. On the other hand I know several people who left Europe and moved to Australia and Canada for example. It can work even though it won’t be easy for everyone involved. But if the alternative is having my kids get shot at school I’d still try. Plus all the social security that’s missing in the US would probably make other countries more attractive to me too.
You shouldn’t be surprised. It’s caused by the same bad actors who are responsible for most of the ways in which the US is an outlier vs its so-called peer democracies.
Because it’s not normal. You just hear about every single instance. Unless you participate or live in very specific neighborhoods with gang violence your odds of being shot are incredibly low.
You also hear about every single instance that happens in other countries, too, except it happens elsewhere once every couple of decades, not couple of days.
And? I said it’s relatively rare. I’m not sure what the EU has to do with the statement I typed out. Did the EU having lower rates affect how rare it is to be shot in the US?
I don’t know why you’re asking me about the EU, but if for instance gunshot wounds are one of the leading causes of death among children and teenagers in one highly developed Western democracy, and it doesn’t even come up in the statistics in any other country, that one country is doing (or fails to do) something that is costing the lives of some of its most vulnerable people. Not recognising it and not striving to do something about it is a huge problem worth pointing out.
You’re off by almost a factor of 4.
In 2021, it was 3.7 deaths per 100,000 children. Scaling that up to 100m, would be 3700 children. In 2021, ~2500 children were killed by firearms in the US, that is ~0.29 children per hour.
Nah, I say let them play. I don’t want them to tell me how low it is, I really want to know how high they are willing to let that number go. The answer is the same every time; any number of dead kids doesn’t matter. I just want them to be upfront with that information rather than falsely state that they don’t care because the number is low, when the truth is they just don’t fucking care at all because they are fucking selfish assholes.
What a fantastic story you’ve invented. I say shootings are rare and you’ve turned this into me shooting children. Absolutely fantastic imagination and skill.
You say shootings are rare when they’re 23 times higher than your first world contemporaries. So either you’re a bullet dodging child, or you need to go back to bullet dodging to fill those gaps in your education.
This is correct, no matter how many downvotes you receive. Facts are facts.
Homicde of any kind, including suicides, is not even in the top 10 most common causes of death in the USA. Homicides with a gun are farther down the list than homicides in general. Suicides with a gun are more common than murders. Mass shootings are not even a blip on the “most common” stats about death.
When a mass shooting happens, all of the anti-gun people rush to say we should ban “assault weapons” which they define as scary looking rifles. Rifles overall only account for 3% of gun deaths in the USA.
I’m a veteran so I know guns and I look forward to additional common sense checks and maybe licenses for owning a firearm. A lot of the things that have been proposed and shot down have been very good ideas. But the fact that they keep using the phrase “assault weapons” is ruining their argument. They are non-gun people talking about guns incorrectly. It’s like when Congress had to question Facebook and asked why their Gmail wasn’t working correctly. If they are going to ban fast shooting high powered weapons, they should be specific. “Assault weapons” are not a thing.
And I’m going to continue my rant… Let’s say you are very pro getting assault weapons off the street and it passes. The criminal can just use an equivalent rifle designed for hunting. Getting " assault weapons" banned will literally not stop anything because they are using the wrong words in order to fear monger.
As an outsider it seems absolutely weird that the US as a country seems to have accepted people getting shot by other regular people daily as normal.
Oprah Winfrey once said, everybody gets a gun, you get a gun, you get a gun, we all get a gun.
😔
Actual regular people haven’t accepted it as normal. Fascists in our country continue to hamstring any efforts to fix the situation because they want the rest of us to keep being reminded that the fascists can and will murder us at will. Standard issue stochastic terrorism.
The one thing that broken clock and infamous twat Dan Hodges got right.
My kids’ school recently had an active shooter drill like we used to do fire drills when I was a kid. They said they all had hiding spots to go to and they thought it was pretty scary. They’re in elementary school. It’s definitely not normal that instead of doing something about the guns we have to teach kids to hide from gunmen because that’s just a legit possibility now.
I had those a decade+ ago when I was in school
I had these in middle school… Which would have been the late 1990’s…
It’s definitely normal… I’m not sure what the person you responded to is going on about.
Well maybe my school was the outlier that didn’t have active shooter drills but that makes it even worse that it’s been 30+ years and nothing has changed. It should NOT be normal to have to prepare elementary kids to hide from an active shooter in their school.
Uh? 2023-(late)1990s… = ~25… Please god don’t make me older than I am… I just can’t take that today.
But it has, MORE schools do it now. So it’s even MORE normal now.
This is a different statement than before. I agree that it should not have to be a normal thing… But unfortunately that’s what it is. But it’s not gun policies that make this the normal. If we want to talk specifically about school shootings… It doesn’t seem that legislation on gun bans alone have made any difference. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/school-shootings-by-state
California is by far the worst state for school shootings, and has what amounts to the strictest laws in all of the USA.
I was in high school in the early 90s, we never had active ahooter drills, we just had the occasional lockdown due to gang wars…
Do gangs operate without guns where you live?
Lockdown is different from a drill. It’s as of I said we never had fire drills, but the school burned down a couple times.
Ah fair enough.
Could be by location. Never had them in a small new england town, but I believe I did in San Diego
My middle school was literally a small New England town…
It is entirely possible that the timelines for their introductions were different.
Also it is only more worrying that the problem is left unadressed since 25 years. Again nothing should be normal about school children having to learn how to hide from someone with a gun trying to kill as many of them as possible.
The US truly seems like a failed state from the outside.
Unaddressed is a bit harsh. Maybe not fully addressed to how we would like, but measures have been attempted in the last quarter century
And what EU country is rolling in success right now?
If you’re going to walk into a conversation and the only thing you have to add is “The US truly seems like a failed state from the outside.” You’re not actually going to further that conversation at all.
What is unaddressed? What problem do you think exists here? Every time I see this argument it’s always stupidly phrased. The UK has lower rates therefore it must be gun control…
Look at the intentional homicide rates… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Notice something? It’s South America that’s completely fucked. If we ban guns in the US… nothing stops that shit from proliferating into the USA on the southern border. Our issues are more handled with better border controls and increase mental welfare. Most violence that happens here is gang violence.
But for one moment let’s look at this list. Notice the British Virgin Islands place on this list… Very similar controls to Britain proper… but has a 2 point higher rate than the USA…
The issue of school shootings, and other acts of violence with the sole intent to kill random people. These things happen about once in a decade in most western countries.
In the US they happen all the fucking time. Especially that people go out of their way to murder a bunch of elementary kids is something happening extremely rarely in other countries.Not so in the US.
In no point did i argue about the particular reasons or solutions, but it is evident that the US is really fucked up in this regard.
Uhh… I already addressed this… The link, if you had read it shows homicide rates per country. Sort by rate, look where your country is compared to the USA… then compared to some other “western” countries. Sort by Region/Subregion… Allow yourself to think about why the US might have problems. The US does have higher rates… The EU itself is surrounded
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_Kingdom
Not only are mass shootings common…
Correct, and I never said you did. I said that the argument I always hear from people who make claims like the USA is fucked up is bullshit. Showing an example of a country over here that’s ruled by Britain with British law, doing significantly worse than the USA does. Almost like it’s different over here. Probably because the EU is buffered from the third world countries… while the USA is definitely not.
It’s really not. But see, you never elaborated on what is “unaddressed” either. So there’s no way to further this discussion is there?
You cannot use overall homicide rates as an indicator for mass shootings.Of course a high homicide rate is a problem in itself, vut it is a different quality, when two drug gangs shoot each other up over a deal gone wrong than someone just running into a school killing two dozen kids
My friend’s daughter is in elementary school and an active shooter came into the school. Nobody died, but later he bought her a bulletproof backpack designed for AR-15 rounds (223). But the backpack was so heavy she couldn’t carry books in it. So instead he opted for handgun rounds protection, which isn’t ideal but it’s something.
As an American, I think the moment I said “which one” when asked if I had heard about the mass shooting in wherever it was I can’t even remember now, that was when I realized how fucked our gun policies are.
What else is there to do but accept it? It isn’t like our politicians have the will to do anything about it. Peaceful protest falls on deaf ears. The gun crazies would gladly die in a blaze of glory rather than be disarmed. The country is awash in guns and ammunition. So please do tell, oh wise outsider, what the hell a normal person is supposed to do about it?
Peaceful protests? There are less peaceful protests for gun control than shootings. Maybe start there.
But I agree the US seems beyond screwed in that regard. NRA is too powerful, the two party system is stuck on the far right and society is divided into extremist views by propaganda and social media.
So maybe leave the country? That’s what I’d do I think.
There are fewer protests these days because people are catching on that they don’t accomplish dick. As to leaving, people have families. Not just their immediate family but think aunts, uncles, cousins. It’s not trivial to leave all that behind and move somewhere where you know no one and have no support structure, and maybe you don’t even speak the language. And to even consider it, you’ve got to have the time and money to expend on moving, and your destination country has to agree to let you in. It’s not a simple undertaking.
It’s not simple at all, I absolutely agree. And leaving family behind sucks. On the other hand I know several people who left Europe and moved to Australia and Canada for example. It can work even though it won’t be easy for everyone involved. But if the alternative is having my kids get shot at school I’d still try. Plus all the social security that’s missing in the US would probably make other countries more attractive to me too.
That’s fair. I’d probably be a lot more motivated to leave if I had kids to think about.
You shouldn’t be surprised. It’s caused by the same bad actors who are responsible for most of the ways in which the US is an outlier vs its so-called peer democracies.
Because it’s not normal. You just hear about every single instance. Unless you participate or live in very specific neighborhoods with gang violence your odds of being shot are incredibly low.
You also hear about every single instance that happens in other countries, too, except it happens elsewhere once every couple of decades, not couple of days.
And? I said it’s relatively rare. I’m not sure what the EU has to do with the statement I typed out. Did the EU having lower rates affect how rare it is to be shot in the US?
I don’t know why you’re asking me about the EU, but if for instance gunshot wounds are one of the leading causes of death among children and teenagers in one highly developed Western democracy, and it doesn’t even come up in the statistics in any other country, that one country is doing (or fails to do) something that is costing the lives of some of its most vulnerable people. Not recognising it and not striving to do something about it is a huge problem worth pointing out.
And even with the elevated rate, it’s still absurdly rare. You are talking 1000 or so cases for nearly 100m children.
You’re off by almost a factor of 4. In 2021, it was 3.7 deaths per 100,000 children. Scaling that up to 100m, would be 3700 children. In 2021, ~2500 children were killed by firearms in the US, that is ~0.29 children per hour.
They want to play the numbers game when one is one too many. Don’t engage in the percentages tango, it validates their stupid point.
Nah, I say let them play. I don’t want them to tell me how low it is, I really want to know how high they are willing to let that number go. The answer is the same every time; any number of dead kids doesn’t matter. I just want them to be upfront with that information rather than falsely state that they don’t care because the number is low, when the truth is they just don’t fucking care at all because they are fucking selfish assholes.
You’re okay with one thousand or so dead children?
Age-adjusted firearm homicide rates in the US are 22 times greater than in the European Union and 23 times greater than in Australia.
Gun violence accounts for over 7% of deaths in the US among those under age 20.
Well it’s a great thing that deaths under 20 are quite rare!
Stop shooting kids. Cowards.
I can’t recall shooting any kids in my lifetime 🤷♂️
You do it every time you vote.
I’ll vote against anyone that proposes gun control just to spite you.
Then you’ll be voting against everyone because nearly everyone supports some kind of gun control.
You’ll have to track down and vote for the guys who are willing to arm people on death row if you really believe what you just wrote.
What a fantastic story you’ve invented. I say shootings are rare and you’ve turned this into me shooting children. Absolutely fantastic imagination and skill.
You say shootings are rare when they’re 23 times higher than your first world contemporaries. So either you’re a bullet dodging child, or you need to go back to bullet dodging to fill those gaps in your education.
The US has had 565 shootings so far this year. My country has none. That’s not rare that’s regular.
It’s not normal!
-the person trying to normalize it
This is correct, no matter how many downvotes you receive. Facts are facts.
Homicde of any kind, including suicides, is not even in the top 10 most common causes of death in the USA. Homicides with a gun are farther down the list than homicides in general. Suicides with a gun are more common than murders. Mass shootings are not even a blip on the “most common” stats about death.
When a mass shooting happens, all of the anti-gun people rush to say we should ban “assault weapons” which they define as scary looking rifles. Rifles overall only account for 3% of gun deaths in the USA.
I’m a veteran so I know guns and I look forward to additional common sense checks and maybe licenses for owning a firearm. A lot of the things that have been proposed and shot down have been very good ideas. But the fact that they keep using the phrase “assault weapons” is ruining their argument. They are non-gun people talking about guns incorrectly. It’s like when Congress had to question Facebook and asked why their Gmail wasn’t working correctly. If they are going to ban fast shooting high powered weapons, they should be specific. “Assault weapons” are not a thing.
And I’m going to continue my rant… Let’s say you are very pro getting assault weapons off the street and it passes. The criminal can just use an equivalent rifle designed for hunting. Getting " assault weapons" banned will literally not stop anything because they are using the wrong words in order to fear monger.
Yep, there’s idiots on both sides of every fence that got to their opinions through circumstance rather than cognizance.