I’m not a prescriptivist in general, but I draw the line when it doesn’t make any sense AND makes it harder for people to understand each other/meaningfully communicate what they actually mean to say.
You can have opinions on two completely separate, entirely unrelated issues at the same time. And it’s not an either/or topic of conversation. We can have both.
But yes, the conservative mainstream attack on Trans is definitely intended to distract from all of their monumental failings.
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t warrant some discussion, though. Just not the amount it’s getting.
What you’re saying doesn’t constitute a strong argument. My position is that we should notinclude trans people in those categories because, later on, we cannot remove them (which would be much worse). You, on the other hand, seem to opt for ignoring that and, through ignorance, place people with views similar to mine in the position of oppressors trying to remove those people from that category. That’s malevolent.
You’re either a fed or a bot, I don’t care to find out for either. Trans people make up 1% of the United States and within that 1% barely any trans people play sports. The news has hyper actively focus on the ones that do.
If you want to make an entire section of sports for less than 1% of the United States pick your self up by your bootstraps and go nuts. Other wise, who cares.
Trans people make up 1% of the United States and within that 1% barely any trans people play sports.
As I mentioned, you don’t need to have 10% of people with an unfair advantage in sports; you just need a few on the podium. You completely ignored that because it’s easier for you to fight with an imagined bot than an actual argument.
If those athletes’ performance would align with others, that wouldn’t be an issue. What I’m raising as an issue is that they could build muscle differently, and even bone density can be different for men and women. It’s impossible to eradicate all those characteristics. That’s what trans people are trying to do and they have made progress, but some things stay, especially for those who began transitioning late after puberty.
This is also dumb as fuck. This isn’t a courtroom or a debate stage. No one owes every dumbass with a phone and a lemmy account a well reasoned response. Say some dumb fucking shit and you’ll get a dumb fucking response.
yeah, gonna second that counter point. this is not worth the government’s time… it’s sports, it doesn’t actually matter. let the leagues or whatever figure this out for themselves.
People without legs participate in runs in the Paralympics, and some of their prosthetics are quite bouncy. I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point they beat runners with legs using those prosthetics.
I would prefer for them not to compete with “regular” runners because the balance between having legs and bounciness of the prosthetics shouldn’t be the deciding factor when determining the winner.
Letting people with prosthetics compete with each other and not with people with legs is fair for both groups.
Removing categories in sports would result in podiums filled with men, which is a root of that problem.
It is fine if you don’t mind it.
I prefer categorization for men, women, trans men, trans women, paralympics, and I would even leave that amusing category of not-tall-man basketball because they in fact cannot compete with tall players but they still can compete among themselves.
I’m not a native speaker, and it seems like you hear what you want to hear. My responses were polite, but please continue with your whistle-blowing, it’s evident that argumentation is not your strong suit.
Absolutely nothing you said is new or novel though, that was their point. It’s the same line the right has been using for the last… 10 years or so? Idk, whenever they decided they were mad about it. You’re repeating talking points whether you know it or not.
Right, hasn’t changed for Republicans, or him, or you apparently. Everyone else has heard the argument and doesn’t actually care. It’s sports, it’s not that important.
Do you want the federal government making rules for baseball? The argument is so incredibly stupid it makes it seem like a bad faith argument. It’s not the integrity of the sport they’re concerned with at all.
Hope I helped clear that up for you T-Bone, let me know if you need further clarification.
Why not let the governing bodies for the sports themselves make that distinction and then allow the schools to follow suit? To assume someone would transition purely for a sporting advantage of some kind is asinine.
Transitioning is incredibly traumatic for the body (and mentally) you are not as strong after the fact as you were before.
This argument has existed before Trans. I rememberan Olympic sprinter opened this debate. She had more masc hormones than average. She didn’t take masc hormones, she didn’t drake performance enhancing drugs, she wasn’t Trans. She was just born with more than the average male hormones than the average woman and there was a debate on if that gave her an unfair advantage.
Every time you people shift the goalposts, you shift them even more when it’s finally met. If a naturally born woman gets the same argument, when will this argument end? When women can’t compete in sports at all? Back in the kitchen taking care of house and family?
This argument has existed before Trans. I rememberan Olympic sprinter opened this debate. She had more masc hormones than average. She didn’t take masc hormones, she didn’t drake performance enhancing drugs, she wasn’t Trans. She was just born with more than the average male hormones than the average woman and there was a debate on if that gave her an unfair advantage.
Yes, it’s a valid counterargument to what I’ve written. Defining a woman is hard.
Every time you people shift the goalposts, you shift them even more when it’s finally met. If a naturally born woman gets the same argument, when will this argument end? When women can’t compete in sports at all? Back in the kitchen taking care of house and family?
But I see that being reasonable didn’t work for you in the long run.
Its hard to be reasonable when you won’t and keep taking our rights away, you people are always shifting the goal posts to meet your own personal ends of what a woman should be.
You are so obsessed you won’t deign to admit it’s irrelevant to lawmaking while the deaths of thousands every year doesn’t even register in this conversation to you.
Three paragraphs: but trans people competing in sports is a huge issue that isn’t addressed properly in today’s confused society full of the dangers of trans people competing in sports, destroying a whole category of sports because the trans people competing in sports are competing in sports
There should be no issue if the trans woman underwent hormone therapy to having cis female levels of testosterone. No one is going to seriously push for trans women to play sports when they have all the biological advantages to beat women. But once they allow their physical form to transition, I’d argue they’re on the same level as the cis female population, if not at a disadvantage since cis women might produce more testosterone. Testing could be done to ensure validity.
We also don’t care if men have significant genetic advantages. I don’t think it’s as big of an issue as people are making it seem.
I’d argue they’re on the same level as the cis female population.
I would oppose that statement. You can balance hormones, but there are differences in how men grow taller, gain muscles while using different hormones, and fat distribution is different for different genders, with fat located in different places. These things don’t disappear after transitioning completely. The trans community would love that because it would improve their lives and they wouldn’t be misgendered as often, but it’s not how it works for people after puberty.
I’m sorry, but considering that I actually took hormones once when I questioned my gender and then realized I’m cis and stopped, I can’t agree. I literally tried it because I believed ideas like what you are saying and I liked the idea of keeping most of my strength. But that’s not the case.Not having testosterone makes you so incredibly weak. HRT basically forces your muscles to atrophy overnight if it works. Your ability to apply strong force with your hand just disappears. All the shit you grew in male puberty doesn’t matter because the medication will just change it. Anything leftover from masculinization will be cosmetic. Maybe they won’t be as weak of a woman as they would have been if they were born female, but they will still enter a range of strength that is typical for women, and often weaker than many. And all of this reverts if they stop. It did for me. And I was 23 so I’m pretty sure I was after puberty. I simply cannot believe the idea that trans women are always stronger than cis women after my experience. I get that most people just don’t have any actual experience with these things, but the misinformation is horrifically bad. I strongly feel like a lot of straight women in sports/people in general are just transphobic and would look for any reason to disclude them from sports and are willing to die on the hill they made because it’s not about being correct or fair to them. It never feels it’s really about how fair things are in reality.
I really think the issue of trans people in sports should be up to the governing body of the sporting organization. It’s not really something the federal government should be concerned about.
You’re aware that trans people generally have been allowed to compete, with restrictions, already, right?
You don’t need a large population with that advantage to put them all on the podium.
So why hasn’t that happened? Trans people have been allowed to compete already, but all these terrible scenarios we keep getting warned about just haven’t come to pass.
And we know that because there are like 5 cases of trans women competing and winning things that get brought up repeatedly by TERFs for years. If trans women “dominating” women’s sports was so frequent an occurrence, conservatives wouldn’t be foaming at the mouth about a trans woman placing 6159th in a marathon.
It’s not advisable to allow trans people in those categories because removing them later from that would be inhumane.
That ship has long sailed.
This is literally just a wedge issue. A nothing burger that they have convinced you is important. Its only purpose is division.
Removed by mod
You’re literally falling for the republican wedge issue
not falling, ‘literally’. figuratively, yes.
One valid and recognized definition of literally is “figuratively”. Words and usage changes overtime in a society.
Recognised but never valid.
I’m not a prescriptivist in general, but I draw the line when it doesn’t make any sense AND makes it harder for people to understand each other/meaningfully communicate what they actually mean to say.
You haven’t drawn any lines, God, you’re typing words.
I meant figurative lines, not literal ones.
You can have opinions on two completely separate, entirely unrelated issues at the same time. And it’s not an either/or topic of conversation. We can have both.
But yes, the conservative mainstream attack on Trans is definitely intended to distract from all of their monumental failings.
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t warrant some discussion, though. Just not the amount it’s getting.
You can, but you have mistaken opinion from distraction.
What you’re saying doesn’t constitute a strong argument. My position is that we should notinclude trans people in those categories because, later on, we cannot remove them (which would be much worse). You, on the other hand, seem to opt for ignoring that and, through ignorance, place people with views similar to mine in the position of oppressors trying to remove those people from that category. That’s malevolent.
You’re either a fed or a bot, I don’t care to find out for either. Trans people make up 1% of the United States and within that 1% barely any trans people play sports. The news has hyper actively focus on the ones that do.
If you want to make an entire section of sports for less than 1% of the United States pick your self up by your bootstraps and go nuts. Other wise, who cares.
As I mentioned, you don’t need to have 10% of people with an unfair advantage in sports; you just need a few on the podium. You completely ignored that because it’s easier for you to fight with an imagined bot than an actual argument.
If those athletes’ performance would align with others, that wouldn’t be an issue. What I’m raising as an issue is that they could build muscle differently, and even bone density can be different for men and women. It’s impossible to eradicate all those characteristics. That’s what trans people are trying to do and they have made progress, but some things stay, especially for those who began transitioning late after puberty.
Counterpoint, this is dumb as fuck
Wow, such a thoughtful and well-reasoned argument.
This is also dumb as fuck. This isn’t a courtroom or a debate stage. No one owes every dumbass with a phone and a lemmy account a well reasoned response. Say some dumb fucking shit and you’ll get a dumb fucking response.
If you can’t respond constructively, maybe you shouldn’t respond at all.
yeah, gonna second that counter point. this is not worth the government’s time… it’s sports, it doesn’t actually matter. let the leagues or whatever figure this out for themselves.
Do you even listen to yourself?
I advocate for the creation of separate categories for those people.
Separate…but equal?
People without legs participate in runs in the Paralympics, and some of their prosthetics are quite bouncy. I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point they beat runners with legs using those prosthetics.
I would prefer for them not to compete with “regular” runners because the balance between having legs and bounciness of the prosthetics shouldn’t be the deciding factor when determining the winner.
Letting people with prosthetics compete with each other and not with people with legs is fair for both groups.
Fairness in any kind of competition is a weird illusion people are obsessed with maintaining.
Removing categories in sports would result in podiums filled with men, which is a root of that problem.
It is fine if you don’t mind it.
I prefer categorization for men, women, trans men, trans women, paralympics, and I would even leave that amusing category of not-tall-man basketball because they in fact cannot compete with tall players but they still can compete among themselves.
Bigots love segregation.
“Those people” Sounds familiar. What were you saying about malevolence and being the oppressors, again?
I’m not a native speaker, and it seems like you hear what you want to hear. My responses were polite, but please continue with your whistle-blowing, it’s evident that argumentation is not your strong suit.
I’m not a native speaker either, buttercup. That’s no excuse to be the bigot that all your comments on this thread show you out to be.
Call me whatever you want but you’re shit at arguing your own points and you’re anything but polite. Keep yapping.
Absolutely nothing you said is new or novel though, that was their point. It’s the same line the right has been using for the last… 10 years or so? Idk, whenever they decided they were mad about it. You’re repeating talking points whether you know it or not.
What a great non-argument you made. Republican said it and it hasn’t changed so it must be wrong.
Right, hasn’t changed for Republicans, or him, or you apparently. Everyone else has heard the argument and doesn’t actually care. It’s sports, it’s not that important.
Do you want the federal government making rules for baseball? The argument is so incredibly stupid it makes it seem like a bad faith argument. It’s not the integrity of the sport they’re concerned with at all.
Hope I helped clear that up for you T-Bone, let me know if you need further clarification.
Did you make chat gpt write this?
I’m not a native English speaker.
Shut the fuck up
Why not let the governing bodies for the sports themselves make that distinction and then allow the schools to follow suit? To assume someone would transition purely for a sporting advantage of some kind is asinine.
The reasons a person transitions don’t really matter if they do it later in life and can benefit from it.
Transitioning is incredibly traumatic for the body (and mentally) you are not as strong after the fact as you were before.
This argument has existed before Trans. I rememberan Olympic sprinter opened this debate. She had more masc hormones than average. She didn’t take masc hormones, she didn’t drake performance enhancing drugs, she wasn’t Trans. She was just born with more than the average male hormones than the average woman and there was a debate on if that gave her an unfair advantage.
Every time you people shift the goalposts, you shift them even more when it’s finally met. If a naturally born woman gets the same argument, when will this argument end? When women can’t compete in sports at all? Back in the kitchen taking care of house and family?
Crazy how conservatives finally found an excuse to watch the WNBA.
Yes, it’s a valid counterargument to what I’ve written. Defining a woman is hard.
But I see that being reasonable didn’t work for you in the long run.
Its hard to be reasonable when you won’t and keep taking our rights away, you people are always shifting the goal posts to meet your own personal ends of what a woman should be.
You’re clueless.
See: The first sentence of my statement.
You are so obsessed you won’t deign to admit it’s irrelevant to lawmaking while the deaths of thousands every year doesn’t even register in this conversation to you.
One sentence: shooting are bad
Three paragraphs: but trans people competing in sports is a huge issue that isn’t addressed properly in today’s confused society full of the dangers of trans people competing in sports, destroying a whole category of sports because the trans people competing in sports are competing in sports
Who cares?
It’s high school sports. They should be out having fun, not obsessing over which of them will make it into the fucking Olympics.
There should be no issue if the trans woman underwent hormone therapy to having cis female levels of testosterone. No one is going to seriously push for trans women to play sports when they have all the biological advantages to beat women. But once they allow their physical form to transition, I’d argue they’re on the same level as the cis female population, if not at a disadvantage since cis women might produce more testosterone. Testing could be done to ensure validity.
We also don’t care if men have significant genetic advantages. I don’t think it’s as big of an issue as people are making it seem.
I would oppose that statement. You can balance hormones, but there are differences in how men grow taller, gain muscles while using different hormones, and fat distribution is different for different genders, with fat located in different places. These things don’t disappear after transitioning completely. The trans community would love that because it would improve their lives and they wouldn’t be misgendered as often, but it’s not how it works for people after puberty.
I’m sorry, but considering that I actually took hormones once when I questioned my gender and then realized I’m cis and stopped, I can’t agree. I literally tried it because I believed ideas like what you are saying and I liked the idea of keeping most of my strength. But that’s not the case.Not having testosterone makes you so incredibly weak. HRT basically forces your muscles to atrophy overnight if it works. Your ability to apply strong force with your hand just disappears. All the shit you grew in male puberty doesn’t matter because the medication will just change it. Anything leftover from masculinization will be cosmetic. Maybe they won’t be as weak of a woman as they would have been if they were born female, but they will still enter a range of strength that is typical for women, and often weaker than many. And all of this reverts if they stop. It did for me. And I was 23 so I’m pretty sure I was after puberty. I simply cannot believe the idea that trans women are always stronger than cis women after my experience. I get that most people just don’t have any actual experience with these things, but the misinformation is horrifically bad. I strongly feel like a lot of straight women in sports/people in general are just transphobic and would look for any reason to disclude them from sports and are willing to die on the hill they made because it’s not about being correct or fair to them. It never feels it’s really about how fair things are in reality.
Concern troll detected
I really think the issue of trans people in sports should be up to the governing body of the sporting organization. It’s not really something the federal government should be concerned about.
You’re aware that trans people generally have been allowed to compete, with restrictions, already, right?
So why hasn’t that happened? Trans people have been allowed to compete already, but all these terrible scenarios we keep getting warned about just haven’t come to pass.
And we know that because there are like 5 cases of trans women competing and winning things that get brought up repeatedly by TERFs for years. If trans women “dominating” women’s sports was so frequent an occurrence, conservatives wouldn’t be foaming at the mouth about a trans woman placing 6159th in a marathon.
That ship has long sailed.
This is literally just a wedge issue. A nothing burger that they have convinced you is important. Its only purpose is division.
ROFL!