No, it’s actually one of the most problematic points in anarchist theory. How to handle people who are cruel or who do not respect social contracts. The fact that many anarchists want to abolish police but than want to build a structure similar to police or do not discuss the topic at all is showing they don’t have a solution.
Stirner for example basically ignores the topic.
Kropotkin only addresses crimes which have the state as basis (property and political crime).
Please share which Anarchist theoretist formulated a concrete plan on how to deal with non-political crime in practice.
How to handle people who are cruel or who do not respect social contracts. The fact that many anarchists want to abolish police but than want to build a structure similar to police or do not discuss the topic at all is showing they don’t have a solution.
Again, you haven’t read any theory, have you? Have you really never heard of diffuse sanctions? Stop embarrassing yourself.
That’s because you can’t over-generalize these things without gausing great injustice in the process.
The communities on a ground level know best how to handle crimes in the community. If you want laws encompassing everyone in every facet of life: go read a bible or something.
You are advocating for exactly that to happen. Many bible communities would rejoice in anarchy bevause then they can enforce all their fucked up rules again and kids who are born into these communities… Well, tough luck I guess. Your community on the ground level decided it’s okay to burn people as witches who have red hair.
Many bible communities would rejoice in anarchy bevause then they can enforce all their fucked up rules again and kids who are born into these communities…
Yeah, because religion didn’t spread through conquest. /s
Your community on the ground level decided it’s okay to burn people as witches who have red hair.
You have a really fucked up image of humanity, do you know that? You do know that Hobbes was wrong with his Leviathan, right?
Explain to me this: if humanity isn’t fucked up and what I suggest wouldn’t happen, why is police bad? When people are so great and wonderful and nice and don’t abuse their power, why do you dislike police?
You’re proposing a false dichotomy: Humanity has the potential to be caring for each other or to be fucked up and only look out for themselves. It depends on what behavior is fostered in society to see if people in that society are (on average) “fucked up” or not .
I believe that fostering hierarchies of command and control teaches people to be fucked up. That being in a position of power over others fucks yowr brain up to think that you are above them and abuse that power. That is why I dislike hierarchies and by extension: the police.
That is why I believe we should build societies that should question and/or refuse these hierarchies, whenever they appear.
Hobbes believed that people are fucked up “deep down” and therefore, we need a hierarchical state to keep us in line. I think that he got it the wrong way round: That power corrupts us and makes us fucked up.
And I’m sure you know that feeling. That you had some teacher or boss in the past who treated you unfairly, because hey know they would get away with it, because they had a higher rank than you. It’s quite a universal experience.
Well, I am so happy that police exists because I know I’d be fucked up without it. There is not a single society without police that doesn’t oppress it’s children and women. I know that a lot of people believe in a natural order and in that order I am below them. The only thing that is stopping them from enforcing their believes is that the country I live in decided that it is wrong to treat people that way and to enforce this believe they have laws and police.
I would rather not live in a world where I have to creep up my neighbour’s butts in the hopes of them protecting me. I don’t want to have to fit in to be free and I don’t want to be scared of my neighbours all the time.
Anarchists just seem like a bunch of spoiled privileged people to me who’s only concern is that someone doesn’t allow them to consume drugs or whatever. I just wish they’d try living in a place without these structures in place for a while they privilege off but don’t acknowledge.
There is not a single society without police that doesn’t oppress it’s children and women.
That’s simply not true. Counterexamples:
The CNT/FAI in 1930s Cathalonia
Anarchist Ukraine after the1918 revolution
The Zapatistas
Many pre-colonial native American tribes, e.g. The Wendat
Pretty much any immediate-return hunter gatherer people, e.g. the Hadza or the Pygmy
The only thing that is stopping them from enforcing their believes is that the country I live in decided that it is wrong to treat people that way and to enforce this believe they have laws and police.
So, if a country can “decide” this, why can’t a community “decide” it? We both know that there are bucket loads of precedents of countries oppressing minorities both in the past and now. So obviously, a state doesn’t guarantee that people aren’t oppressed. I’d even claim that most countries still oppress their children (to raise them as “productive” workers).
I don’t want to have to fit in to be free
You have to do so today. If you don’t notice that, that’s because you fit in.
and I don’t want to be scared of my neighbours all the time.
Ever heard of racism in the police? And you claim that I don’t acknowledge my privileges.
Anarchists just seem like a bunch of spoiled privileged people to me who’s only concern is that someone doesn’t allow them to consume drugs or whatever. I just wish they’d try living in a place without these structures in place for a while they privilege off but don’t acknowledge.
Anarchists are acutely aware of the injustices that don’t harm them directly. One rallying cry is “no one is free until we all are free” after all.
Each of your examples I looked up and there is either not eboug information about them to make these judgements or there is vague information that refutes your claims.
For example:
CNT/FAI had and used prisons.
In anarchist Ukraine you had the so called Black Guards which acted similar to police and they had groups like Black Banner and general tried to overpower each other all the time.
In the region reigned by Zapatistas the Mexican Army and National Guard’s handle crime with Zapatistas even claiming they don’t do enough and should do more against the violent crime there.
Wendat have hierarchical structures with a Grand Chief and a Chief of each family.
So, if a country can “decide” this, why can’t a community “decide” it?
I don’t say they can’t. I say they can’t do it without some form of police who enforces the rules they decided on in some way.
Ever heard of racism in the police? And you claim that I don’t acknowledge my privileges.
What makes you believe a smaller group of people is less racist? I’d say it’s the other way around.
You have to do so today. If you don’t notice that, that’s because you fit in.
I very much do not fit in. And everytime someone helped me in the past it was police or some other state infrastructure. Definitely not my neighbours who would probably just cast me out as a burden.
Anarchist theory almost exclusively talks about political motivated crime they propose will stop when the state and all it’s structures are abolished.
Non-political crime they mostly only brush over and suggest the communities will handle it themselves.
So no, they don’t have a concept of how people are supposed to protect themselve from crimes that aren’t politically motivated.
You haven’t actually read any anarchist theory, have you? This is a fucking joke.
No, it’s actually one of the most problematic points in anarchist theory. How to handle people who are cruel or who do not respect social contracts. The fact that many anarchists want to abolish police but than want to build a structure similar to police or do not discuss the topic at all is showing they don’t have a solution.
Stirner for example basically ignores the topic. Kropotkin only addresses crimes which have the state as basis (property and political crime).
Please share which Anarchist theoretist formulated a concrete plan on how to deal with non-political crime in practice.
Again, you haven’t read any theory, have you? Have you really never heard of diffuse sanctions? Stop embarrassing yourself.
That’s because you can’t over-generalize these things without gausing great injustice in the process.
The communities on a ground level know best how to handle crimes in the community. If you want laws encompassing everyone in every facet of life: go read a bible or something.
You are advocating for exactly that to happen. Many bible communities would rejoice in anarchy bevause then they can enforce all their fucked up rules again and kids who are born into these communities… Well, tough luck I guess. Your community on the ground level decided it’s okay to burn people as witches who have red hair.
Lol no. Absolutely not! Anarchists would be 100% against these kinds of structures, so they wouldn’t be allowed to exist.
How would anarchists enforce that these communities “wouldn’t be allowed to exist”? Seems a lot like power and authority to me.
It’s not an enforcement. No one would want to make that community, and anyone trying to make it would be laughed at.
Yeah, because religion didn’t spread through conquest. /s
You have a really fucked up image of humanity, do you know that? You do know that Hobbes was wrong with his Leviathan, right?
Explain to me this: if humanity isn’t fucked up and what I suggest wouldn’t happen, why is police bad? When people are so great and wonderful and nice and don’t abuse their power, why do you dislike police?
You’re proposing a false dichotomy: Humanity has the potential to be caring for each other or to be fucked up and only look out for themselves. It depends on what behavior is fostered in society to see if people in that society are (on average) “fucked up” or not .
I believe that fostering hierarchies of command and control teaches people to be fucked up. That being in a position of power over others fucks yowr brain up to think that you are above them and abuse that power. That is why I dislike hierarchies and by extension: the police.
That is why I believe we should build societies that should question and/or refuse these hierarchies, whenever they appear.
Hobbes believed that people are fucked up “deep down” and therefore, we need a hierarchical state to keep us in line. I think that he got it the wrong way round: That power corrupts us and makes us fucked up.
And I’m sure you know that feeling. That you had some teacher or boss in the past who treated you unfairly, because hey know they would get away with it, because they had a higher rank than you. It’s quite a universal experience.
Well, I am so happy that police exists because I know I’d be fucked up without it. There is not a single society without police that doesn’t oppress it’s children and women. I know that a lot of people believe in a natural order and in that order I am below them. The only thing that is stopping them from enforcing their believes is that the country I live in decided that it is wrong to treat people that way and to enforce this believe they have laws and police.
I would rather not live in a world where I have to creep up my neighbour’s butts in the hopes of them protecting me. I don’t want to have to fit in to be free and I don’t want to be scared of my neighbours all the time.
Anarchists just seem like a bunch of spoiled privileged people to me who’s only concern is that someone doesn’t allow them to consume drugs or whatever. I just wish they’d try living in a place without these structures in place for a while they privilege off but don’t acknowledge.
That’s simply not true. Counterexamples:
So, if a country can “decide” this, why can’t a community “decide” it? We both know that there are bucket loads of precedents of countries oppressing minorities both in the past and now. So obviously, a state doesn’t guarantee that people aren’t oppressed. I’d even claim that most countries still oppress their children (to raise them as “productive” workers).
You have to do so today. If you don’t notice that, that’s because you fit in.
Ever heard of racism in the police? And you claim that I don’t acknowledge my privileges.
Anarchists are acutely aware of the injustices that don’t harm them directly. One rallying cry is “no one is free until we all are free” after all.
Each of your examples I looked up and there is either not eboug information about them to make these judgements or there is vague information that refutes your claims.
For example:
CNT/FAI had and used prisons.
In anarchist Ukraine you had the so called Black Guards which acted similar to police and they had groups like Black Banner and general tried to overpower each other all the time.
In the region reigned by Zapatistas the Mexican Army and National Guard’s handle crime with Zapatistas even claiming they don’t do enough and should do more against the violent crime there.
Wendat have hierarchical structures with a Grand Chief and a Chief of each family.
I don’t say they can’t. I say they can’t do it without some form of police who enforces the rules they decided on in some way.
What makes you believe a smaller group of people is less racist? I’d say it’s the other way around.
I very much do not fit in. And everytime someone helped me in the past it was police or some other state infrastructure. Definitely not my neighbours who would probably just cast me out as a burden.
You used the same explanation I already disproved, you’re objectively a troll.