being a part of the religion requires them to do something (repent and love others)
By your definition, but there are plenty of people who seem to have other definitions, enough that he is publicly labeled as a Christian. It would seem the strict biblical definition of who is a Christian does not apply, like many other biblical rules, such as not wearing clothing of mixed fabrics.
You’re not going to convince non Christians he’s not one you with denial alone. You can either own him and better him, or suffer the changing public perception of your religion.
By your definition, but there are plenty of people who seem to have other definitions, enough that he is publicly labeled as a Christian.
It’s not my definition. It’s explicitly the founder’s definition. There’s not really any room for interpretation in “by this they will know you’re my disciples: if you love one another.” Not loving? Not Christian.
It would seem the strict biblical definition of who is a Christian does not apply, like many other biblical rules, such as not wearing clothing of mixed fabrics.
Maybe not for them, but words mean things, and I’m not going to accept their redefinition of a term that applies to me.
You’re not going to convince non Christians he’s not one you with denial alone.
I’m really not sure what the other option is, but I’m not trying to convince non-Christians that he’s not a Christian. I’m trying to convince other Christians that he isn’t.
You can either own him and better him,
Love to, but he (and those like him) doesn’t believe I’m a Christian, because I’m not a Republican. So they won’t listen to people like me. Excommunication and public repudiation is a badge of honor to them. About the best I can do is try to say to other Christians, as loudly as I can and with as much Scripture as possible, that he’s a heretic.
or suffer the changing public perception of your religion.
I totally grant that we haven’t done much to change that perception in recent years, and I’m far from trying to demand (or assume) that it should change overnight.
It seems you just want to argue.
If he said that grass was green, you’d come back with “well actually it’s all colors EXCEPT for green. Green is what’s reflected back to your eye.”
The fact is there are basic truths. Christians believe and follow the teachings of Jesus. If someone is not following those teachings, they are not Christian.
I can say I’m a purple elephant and I hate all pink mice because my savior in the Book of Phants told me to. None of that is any more true just because I said it. Likewise, for Mike Johnson. He and his friends can say whatever they want. Their actions show their true beliefs.
There is room for interpretation in every statement,
Not if you’re intellectually honest. Which…ok, fair enough, but I stand by my statement.
and that is far from the only quote in the Bible that defines what a Christian is.
Very true. But the guy who started it all said it quite clearly, and everything else he said that drew edges around this thing points to or flows out of that statement. It’s not like there’s some arcane other thing people can do that’s completely unrelated; there’s no secret magic. It’s all pretty straightforward.
Then nobody else needs to accept your definition either.
I’m not asking non-Christians to. I’m asking people who claim to be Christians to understand what that term has historically meant, and what it meant at the beginning.
You are literally trying to convince me, an atheist, right now.
You’re the one asking.
You can’t do anything about it and it’s his fault that you can’t? Because that’s a really pathetic defense.
I mean, if you’ve got any better ideas, I’m all ears. Seriously, I’m willing to try quite a lot at this point.
I do want to point out that this is a standard that most groups are not held to. Dog lovers are not called to “come get your boy” anytime sometime who claims to be a dog lover kicks a puppy. I’m all for Christians being called to a higher standard—I think we should be, and I think we should rise to it—but I’m really not sure what you think the options are here.
By your definition, but there are plenty of people who seem to have other definitions, enough that he is publicly labeled as a Christian. It would seem the strict biblical definition of who is a Christian does not apply, like many other biblical rules, such as not wearing clothing of mixed fabrics.
You’re not going to convince non Christians he’s not one you with denial alone. You can either own him and better him, or suffer the changing public perception of your religion.
It’s not my definition. It’s explicitly the founder’s definition. There’s not really any room for interpretation in “by this they will know you’re my disciples: if you love one another.” Not loving? Not Christian.
Maybe not for them, but words mean things, and I’m not going to accept their redefinition of a term that applies to me.
I’m really not sure what the other option is, but I’m not trying to convince non-Christians that he’s not a Christian. I’m trying to convince other Christians that he isn’t.
Love to, but he (and those like him) doesn’t believe I’m a Christian, because I’m not a Republican. So they won’t listen to people like me. Excommunication and public repudiation is a badge of honor to them. About the best I can do is try to say to other Christians, as loudly as I can and with as much Scripture as possible, that he’s a heretic.
I totally grant that we haven’t done much to change that perception in recent years, and I’m far from trying to demand (or assume) that it should change overnight.
There is room for interpretation in every statement, and that is far from the only quote in the Bible that defines what a Christian is.
Then nobody else needs to accept your definition either.
You are literally trying to convince me, an atheist, right now.
You can’t do anything about it and it’s his fault that you can’t? Because that’s a really pathetic defense.
This is a really dumb slapfight you’ve picked and you should apologize to this guy.
It seems you just want to argue. If he said that grass was green, you’d come back with “well actually it’s all colors EXCEPT for green. Green is what’s reflected back to your eye.”
The fact is there are basic truths. Christians believe and follow the teachings of Jesus. If someone is not following those teachings, they are not Christian.
I can say I’m a purple elephant and I hate all pink mice because my savior in the Book of Phants told me to. None of that is any more true just because I said it. Likewise, for Mike Johnson. He and his friends can say whatever they want. Their actions show their true beliefs.
Not if you’re intellectually honest. Which…ok, fair enough, but I stand by my statement.
Very true. But the guy who started it all said it quite clearly, and everything else he said that drew edges around this thing points to or flows out of that statement. It’s not like there’s some arcane other thing people can do that’s completely unrelated; there’s no secret magic. It’s all pretty straightforward.
I’m not asking non-Christians to. I’m asking people who claim to be Christians to understand what that term has historically meant, and what it meant at the beginning.
You’re the one asking.
I mean, if you’ve got any better ideas, I’m all ears. Seriously, I’m willing to try quite a lot at this point.
I do want to point out that this is a standard that most groups are not held to. Dog lovers are not called to “come get your boy” anytime sometime who claims to be a dog lover kicks a puppy. I’m all for Christians being called to a higher standard—I think we should be, and I think we should rise to it—but I’m really not sure what you think the options are here.
"The Protestant Reformation was a mistake. " -Martin Luther