“I don’t think that people are exaggerating. I think it’s that they actually are living in information environments in which it is true for them that democracy is under threat,” she said.
It’s this right here. The two sides are so far apart because they consume different information environments, and they have vastly different opinions, which are even based on different facts and concepts of truth. Democrats literally can’t understand what Republicans are thinking, and vice versa, because they can’t agree on the most basic facts anymore.
No… One side is literally talking about being a dictator after failing a literal coup attempt.
Only complete fucking morons fail to see that democracy IS actually under threat.
It doesn’t have to be a threat on the cusp of winning for democracy to never the less still be under threat. (btw, they’re MUCH closer than anyone should ever get under current law, but when half the country doesn’t want laws enforced and the other half doesn’t care enough…)
I don’t think it’s just different information environments when there’s laws being passed to ban books and one side is constantly encouraging extrajudicial violence through stochastic terrorism. It’s just a regular ass rise of fascism.
One good thing about fascists is that they’re usually insecure for a reason and pop their heads up just to get beat down. It’s like Whac-a-Mole. But history shows they can get out of hand if no one is slapping them.
This is why Antifa is important. It’s not that every person in Antifa agrees on what comes next. You don’t have to agree with anyone else involved. Mostly, you won’t because Antifa people are like, “I’m a quasi-left anarcho-libertarian and a vegan who thinks chicken nuggets are allowed.” But if the greatest generation taught us anything, it’s that we all come together to open-hand slap fascists.
I don’t think it’s just different information environments when there’s laws being passed to ban books
His point is that these people are hearing, all day every day, that liberals are trying to force their children to think and behave in a way that is anathema to them. They then go speak to their friends, and hear about their buddy’s kid who went to college and came back a liberal.
Because of the information they are fed, they don’t see that their friend’s kid became a liberal because they became more educated - they think the college literally brainwashed them.
When everything you hear is this kind of falsehood that “makes sense” if you don’t scrutinize it, many people are susceptible to believing in a reality that is just not true.
I genuinely do not believe that, in many cases. I know a lot of these people - sunup to sundown they get precisely one message, and it is increasingly inaccurate, alarmist, and insane.
Human beings are gullible as fuck and this is how you manipulate people. I assure you millions of North Koreans really do believe that the North Korean army is fighting off US invasions left and right - it’s the same underlying functionality as why a lot of MAGA believe the crazy shit they believe
There are an absolute fuckton of “alternative facts” floating around the far let’s sphere of influence, but the far left is
A) significantly smaller than MAGA populism
B) generally aligned with things a majority of people can agree on (higher wages, more rights for minorities, more public services - all loosely defined)
This means the more extreme views of the left are largely ignored by most people. This is, ideally, how it should work across the board, but it does not because one group has a complete ecosystem on which to sustain themselves.
You’re getting downvoted because you’re pointing out the complexity of the situation rather than toeing the anti-Trump Lemmy line, but I get what you’re saying. I think you have a point, although I don’t think its true for all people. Some Trump supporters really are fascists.
One thing I think liberals fail to take into account is how alienated conservatives are from mainstream media. Apart from Fox News and a handful of online zines and YouTube channels, the mainstream media is overwhelmingly Leftist in its slant. Combine that with the fact that Hollywood is Leftist and most TV media companies are eager to incorporate progressive messages for the sole purpose of reaching newly identified audiences to make more money, and you’ve got most of the media we are exposed to echoing liberal ideas and viewpoints. Conservatives understandably feel alienated in such a context, and I think that’s caused them to turn away from the media and restrict themselves to only consuming fringe media outlets that tell them what they want to hear. Social media and other internet algorithms exacerbate this effect online, creating denser and denser echo chambers. This happens on the Left too I think, but their echo chambers are much larger, because they include the mainstream media. You really have to put effort into making sure you’re exposed to conflicting views these days, and I don’t think most people have the motivation to do it.
I’m getting downvote because people think I’m bOtH sIdEsInG it all.
I’m simply noting that both sides have no common ground anymore. I left unsaid the fact that the Conservatives seem to be entirely divorced from reality, and making their own facts up.
If “mainstream media” seems “leftist”, it might be because the left is rooted in actual facts, and the right is rooted in made-up shit.
If “mainstream media” seems “leftist”, it might be because the left is rooted in actual facts, and the right is rooted in made-up shit.
I would agree that the mainstream media has a greater tendency to adhere to the facts than the media outlets conservatives tend to favor, but I don’t think that’s the same as saying Leftist views are rooted in facts and Right-wing views are rooted in made-up shit. Don’t get me wrong, I am a liberal and I definitely think our views are more realistic than those of conservatives, but I also think (and I’m rather sick and tired of it) that liberal views of conservatives are increasingly that conservatives are just dumb, bumble-fuck hicks with no education or intellect, which is just an example of one side dehumanizing and simplifying their opposition for the sake of making themselves feel superior. This benefits no one and just fuels the partisan polarization that is destroying our society.
It’s this right here. The two sides are so far apart because they consume different information environments, and they have vastly different opinions, which are even based on different facts and concepts of truth. Democrats literally can’t understand what Republicans are thinking, and vice versa, because they can’t agree on the most basic facts anymore.
No… One side is literally talking about being a dictator after failing a literal coup attempt.
Only complete fucking morons fail to see that democracy IS actually under threat.
It doesn’t have to be a threat on the cusp of winning for democracy to never the less still be under threat. (btw, they’re MUCH closer than anyone should ever get under current law, but when half the country doesn’t want laws enforced and the other half doesn’t care enough…)
I don’t think it’s just different information environments when there’s laws being passed to ban books and one side is constantly encouraging extrajudicial violence through stochastic terrorism. It’s just a regular ass rise of fascism.
One good thing about fascists is that they’re usually insecure for a reason and pop their heads up just to get beat down. It’s like Whac-a-Mole. But history shows they can get out of hand if no one is slapping them.
This is why Antifa is important. It’s not that every person in Antifa agrees on what comes next. You don’t have to agree with anyone else involved. Mostly, you won’t because Antifa people are like, “I’m a quasi-left anarcho-libertarian and a vegan who thinks chicken nuggets are allowed.” But if the greatest generation taught us anything, it’s that we all come together to open-hand slap fascists.
His point is that these people are hearing, all day every day, that liberals are trying to force their children to think and behave in a way that is anathema to them. They then go speak to their friends, and hear about their buddy’s kid who went to college and came back a liberal.
Because of the information they are fed, they don’t see that their friend’s kid became a liberal because they became more educated - they think the college literally brainwashed them.
When everything you hear is this kind of falsehood that “makes sense” if you don’t scrutinize it, many people are susceptible to believing in a reality that is just not true.
Yep. And I’m saying those people are aware of the alternative viewpoints and are choosing fascism.
I genuinely do not believe that, in many cases. I know a lot of these people - sunup to sundown they get precisely one message, and it is increasingly inaccurate, alarmist, and insane.
Human beings are gullible as fuck and this is how you manipulate people. I assure you millions of North Koreans really do believe that the North Korean army is fighting off US invasions left and right - it’s the same underlying functionality as why a lot of MAGA believe the crazy shit they believe
I’ve only heard about “alternative facts” from one side of the aisle, though.
There are an absolute fuckton of “alternative facts” floating around the far let’s sphere of influence, but the far left is
A) significantly smaller than MAGA populism
B) generally aligned with things a majority of people can agree on (higher wages, more rights for minorities, more public services - all loosely defined)
This means the more extreme views of the left are largely ignored by most people. This is, ideally, how it should work across the board, but it does not because one group has a complete ecosystem on which to sustain themselves.
You’re getting downvoted because you’re pointing out the complexity of the situation rather than toeing the anti-Trump Lemmy line, but I get what you’re saying. I think you have a point, although I don’t think its true for all people. Some Trump supporters really are fascists.
One thing I think liberals fail to take into account is how alienated conservatives are from mainstream media. Apart from Fox News and a handful of online zines and YouTube channels, the mainstream media is overwhelmingly Leftist in its slant. Combine that with the fact that Hollywood is Leftist and most TV media companies are eager to incorporate progressive messages for the sole purpose of reaching newly identified audiences to make more money, and you’ve got most of the media we are exposed to echoing liberal ideas and viewpoints. Conservatives understandably feel alienated in such a context, and I think that’s caused them to turn away from the media and restrict themselves to only consuming fringe media outlets that tell them what they want to hear. Social media and other internet algorithms exacerbate this effect online, creating denser and denser echo chambers. This happens on the Left too I think, but their echo chambers are much larger, because they include the mainstream media. You really have to put effort into making sure you’re exposed to conflicting views these days, and I don’t think most people have the motivation to do it.
I’m getting downvote because people think I’m bOtH sIdEsInG it all.
I’m simply noting that both sides have no common ground anymore. I left unsaid the fact that the Conservatives seem to be entirely divorced from reality, and making their own facts up.
If “mainstream media” seems “leftist”, it might be because the left is rooted in actual facts, and the right is rooted in made-up shit.
I would agree that the mainstream media has a greater tendency to adhere to the facts than the media outlets conservatives tend to favor, but I don’t think that’s the same as saying Leftist views are rooted in facts and Right-wing views are rooted in made-up shit. Don’t get me wrong, I am a liberal and I definitely think our views are more realistic than those of conservatives, but I also think (and I’m rather sick and tired of it) that liberal views of conservatives are increasingly that conservatives are just dumb, bumble-fuck hicks with no education or intellect, which is just an example of one side dehumanizing and simplifying their opposition for the sake of making themselves feel superior. This benefits no one and just fuels the partisan polarization that is destroying our society.