In order to take full control of the dream, you need to have a big ego. This doesn’t mean a big ego in the usual sense. It doesn’t mean you have to be rude or narcissistic, as is commonly associated with a big ego.
In this case, a big ego means confidence that everything in your experience is under your control.
This sounds contradictory to the whole spirituality/metaphysics thing, and in a way it is. But it depends on what your end goals are.
If you want to cease suffering, an ego will only hold you back. And in that case, controlling the dream wouldn’t be on your list of priorities anyway.
But if your end goal is to take control of the whole dream, you need to be supremely confident in your abilities, otherwise you won’t get anywhere. You need to be able to clearly assert an outcome and have full confidence that it will happen. There cannot be any doubt, there cannot be any feebleness or worry. Because the moment you begin to doubt your intention, the more likely you are to re-imply your old situation.
This also means that you shouldn’t be overly forceful or brutish either, because that might imply that without forcing it, you are not capable. You just have to commit and leave it at that.
The big ego is needed because you cannot let the external world dictate your thoughts and worries. Your ego has to be so big and monstrous that nothing external could possibly cause you to doubt your abilities. Most of us have the experience that there are “others” who are above us and hold more power over us, whether socially, politically or economically. Or maybe certain situations hold power over us (e.g illness). A big ego means being completely unaffected by these external circumstances and having complete confidence that you are the sole creator and controller and that nothing external could possibly disrupt your abilities.
That means having an iron hard resolve and committing yourself fully and completely to the desired outcome. Now the problem is that most of us still fall victim to doubt. We could commit ourselves fully, but there will always be a lingering doubt or even a thought “it’s not going to happen, I’m wasting my time”. And the only way to counter that is to stop caring about the results. And to stop caring, it might mean to adopt a state of “just being”.
When you are simply being, that’s when you have the most control over your dream. When you are simply being, nothing can phase you.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-10 19:02:10 (dmt25i6)
But if your end goal is to take control of the whole dream, you need to be supremely confident in your abilities, otherwise you won’t get anywhere. You need to be able to clearly assert an outcome and have full confidence that it will happen. There cannot be any doubt, there cannot be any feebleness or worry. Because the moment you begin to doubt your intention, the more likely you are to re-imply your old situation.
I disagree with this. Basically the formula for manifestation is like this:
constructive intent - contradictory intent (which includes habit, fear, ignorance, beliefs to the contrary about why it cannot happen, etc.) = manifestation.
Naturally if you make contradictory intent zero the result will be the best, all else being equal. However, given some contradictory intent, having some pro-magickal-goal intent vs not having any at all will still make some difference. You’re not going to get a gobsmackingly amazing result if the contradictory intent is huge and well-established, but there will still be some effect leaning toward the first term in that equation all else being equal between having some first term vs. having the first term “constructive intent” be zero.
The axiom is that no intent is ever lost. All intentionality is effective. If you cannot observe an effect it doesn’t mean there is not any. We experience this with mundane situations, like if you watch water boil, for some time it looks like the fire under the pot has no effect, and then suddenly the water decides to boil. In reality no heat is ever lost on the water all the while. I’m using this example as a metaphor and it shouldn’t be taken too literally, because after all I am only giving a fairly mechanical image here, which is not all that accurate.
Plus with magick there are two layers of intentionality. Any time you try to change something relatively mundane, a part of what you’re doing is changing that very aspect of experience, but another part of what you’re doing is changing your overall attitude about magick and the possibilities of magick in general. In other words, intents have a meta-component that implies something about how those intents should be interpreted going forward.
So basically magickal practice is a good thing.
That means having an iron hard resolve and committing yourself fully and completely to the desired outcome. Now the problem is that most of us still fall victim to doubt. We could commit ourselves fully, but there will always be a lingering doubt or even a thought “it’s not going to happen, I’m wasting my time”. And the only way to counter that is to stop caring about the results. And to stop caring, it might mean to adopt a state of “just being”.
I disagree completely. One has to be sincere. If you don’t care about a result you won’t get any result. You must be interested in a result and care about it, but not care to the point of being paralyzed and desperate. If one is desperate, that’s a fragile and disempowered state of mind, but disinterest is another form of disempowerment. The middle way is the best.
What really needs to happen is not so much “just being” but rather a state where you continually think (or better yet, know, if you can), “All appearances are false, only my will is true.” This isn’t a state of “just being” or “hardly giving any fucks.” It’s a state where you are focused on your goal, but you are able to completely disregard the suggestions in the suggestive appearances. In other words, you’re guiding the appearances instead of allowing yourself to be guided and informed by them, as would be the case with the usual evidential thinking.
Paging /u/AesirAnatman to read this reply.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-11 11:10:24 (dmu5t0f)
Naturally if you make contradictory intent zero the result will be the best, all else being equal. However, given some contradictory intent, having some pro-magickal-goal intent vs not having any at all will still make some difference. You’re not going to get a gobsmackingly amazing result if the contradictory intent is huge and well-established, but there will still be some effect leaning toward the first term in that equation all else being equal between having some first term vs. having the first term “constructive intent” be zero.
I agree with all of this, I might not have worded it properly, but we’re on the same page when it comes to intending outcomes.
rather a state where you continually think (or better yet, know, if you can), “All appearances are false, only my will is true.”
Yes, I agree. A state of “just being” is more of a transitional tool, rather than a final end state. The means of getting to the state you described will vary for different people, for me personally, I’ve chosen the “just being” state as my means.
I’ll copy the rough definition I had in the reply to Aesir:
A state of “just being” would be a state of complete non-attachment. When you’re completely un-attached, contradictory intent is reduced by a large margin. Being non-attached doesn’t mean being separate from your desires, but being non-attached to everything around you. You’ll probably feel more content with your circumstances, regardless of what they are. And because you’re content in the moment, you can intend an outcome and have it happen because the contradictory intent is very minimal.
So your final state would be one where you are in full conscious control, and by accepting your circumstances as they are, you can fully intend outcomes and have them happen. Because it’s resistance that stops intentions from manifesting. Theoretically, I could intend a certain outcome and it should absolutely be able to manifest cleanly and quickly. The only thing standing in my way is resistance, that’s literally the only thing that is stopping me, it’s nothing more complicated than that. Eliminate resistance by accepting your circumstances (being non-attached) and your intention will manifest, obviously easier said than done of course.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-11 16:47:31 (dmui2b7)
Exactly. It’s actually non-trivial to word things well when explaining magick. It takes a lot of effort and attention and practice.
The means of getting to the state you described will vary for different people, for me personally, I’ve chosen the “just being” state as my means.
Whatever floats your boat. From my POV the state I am talking about is so drastically different or even flat-out contradictory to the conventional state, that there is no overly smooth and totally gradual way of getting to it. In my experience it’s a gradual process that’s marked by some challenges, growth spurts, sudden breakthroughs, crushing fears followed by 10 steps back, only to later make 20 steps forward again due to a diamond-like resolve, and so on. It’s not such a simple and straightforward process.
I’ve been harping how “all is mind” all my adult life, but my understanding has grown. It’s not that I ever was wrong in the past or I said wrong things, it’s just that I didn’t know the half of it. I was right, but I didn’t know how and why I was right as exactly as I know it today.
So even if someone understands something correctly, it doesn’t mean they understand if fully. There are progressive stages of deepening that attend even the most correct understanding, provided one keeps making continual efforts and remains resolute.
I’m not against the talk of “just being” but to me it sounds very close to relaxing. I think relaxing is very necessary and is healthy, but how specifically one relaxes, the various details of that relaxation, and the ratio of relaxation to effort, and the details of effort, it all matters in the end. Too much relaxation is not very good either. I think “just being” tends to cultivate the tolerance side much more than it cultivates expressiveness, but a complete mage in my view needs both sides to be well developed.
Here tolerance means being undisturbed and basically “OK” no matter what experience is like. And expressiveness means being able to intend anything at any time, without being led by suggestive appearances. So expressiveness is helped by having a giant imagination and also by not allowing appearances to function as a metaphysical leash to one’s mind (being informed by appearances, and even flowing along with the appearances is still being led by them to some extent, and it’s like being leashed up by what appears).
To me an ideal state is not only just this or only just that. It’s more like this: when I relax, I relax well. When I intend something to happen, I intend well. When I stay still, I stay still well. When I move, I move well. It’s to be excellent in every aspect instead of cultivating this kind of floaty attitude all the time. One has to have a big range instead of cultivating a narrow range. That said, if you were habitually a busybody in your recent past, then to overcome the disease of excessive struggle and effort, as an antidote, one can cultivate “just being.” But once your prior excess has been settled down, it’s better to return to cultivating oneself across a broad range of attitudes instead of just sticking to one attitude of floating along.
Eliminate resistance by accepting your circumstances (being non-attached) and your intention will manifest, obviously easier said than done of course.
I don’t agree. On the contrary – reject your circumstances completely. Don’t accept anything. Don’t even accept the sky and the Earth.
All appearances are false. Only my will is true.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-11 17:09:55 (dmuil0u)
Hey, thanks for commenting Green-Moon! Here’s my thoughts on what you wrote.
In order to take full control of the dream, you need to have a big ego.
I take issue with the idea that you need a big ego in any ordinary use of the term ego. I think saying it like this can even mislead certain people. But, you clarify that you don’t mean this in an ordinary sense.
In order to take full control of the dream, you need to have…confidence that everything in your experience is under your control.
I would adjust this to say “you need to have confidence that everything in your experience is under your conscious control”. Everything IS under your control, and realizing that doesn’t make everything readily available to be adjusted. So much of your activity is subconscious that the much bigger task, imo, is becoming more conscious of the activity you want to change rather than knowing that it is ultimately your responsibility.
This sounds contradictory to the whole spirituality/metaphysics thing, and in a way it is. But it depends on what your end goals are.
Depends on what “spirituality” means. I think it mostly lines up with a few interpretations of a few spiritual traditions (i.e. Kashmir Shaivism, Dzogchen, maaaybe Advaita Vedanta, some Neoplatonism, Hermeticism, maybe some others).
if your end goal is to take control of the whole dream, you need to be supremely confident in your abilities, otherwise you won’t get anywhere. You need to be able to clearly assert an outcome and have full confidence that it will happen. There cannot be any doubt, there cannot be any feebleness or worry. Because the moment you begin to doubt your intention, the more likely you are to re-imply your old situation.
I agree with this idea. But it’s no trivial task to simply become supremely confident in your role as a god and to not doubt it when 99% of your mentality is still plain old human. That’s a EXTRAORDINARILY hard transition to make, let alone in a short period of time. I think for 99.9999% of people (myself included!) such a transition is probably impossible in one lifetime due to their own contradictory intent.
The big ego is needed because you cannot let the external world dictate your thoughts and worries. Your ego has to be so big and monstrous that nothing external could possibly cause you to doubt your abilities. Most of us have the experience that there are “others” who are above us and hold more power over us, whether socially, politically or economically. Or maybe certain situations hold power over us (e.g illness). A big ego means being completely unaffected by these external circumstances and having complete confidence that you are the sole creator and controller and that nothing external could possibly disrupt your abilities.
Try this reversal of perspective on. That “external world” is actually your own subconscious. And yes you can reprogram your subconscious, but it is no trivial task for most people and you probably have a lot of good reasons, at least what were once good reasons, to have your subconscious set up the way it is. It would be wise to assess those perhaps unconscious motives and learn more about how they contradict your more conscious motives and really see what you’re willing to give up and what you’re not willing to give up.
So yes. If you are confident enough in the powers of your mind you can totally adjust and reprogram your subconscious and just ignore whatever the old programming is. But you might find that some of that old programming is actually serving a useful purpose as you try to overwrite it. In that case your obstacle isn’t your ability to reprogram your mind, it’s your own desires. It’s a contradiction of intent, which plays a huge role in suffering, imo. Resolving those contradictory intentions is really beneficial.
That means having an iron hard resolve and committing yourself fully and completely to the desired outcome. Now the problem is that most of us still fall victim to doubt. We could commit ourselves fully, but there will always be a lingering doubt or even a thought “it’s not going to happen, I’m wasting my time”.
Hmm. Let’s just try not to grit our teeth to get something we think we want only to find out later that we actually destroyed something we liked. What you say here isn’t wrong, but some doubts aren’t just doubts about one’s ability. They are doubts about the desirability of some psychic transformations. There’s potentially a lot to lose playing around with insanity and I now agree with /u/mindseal that this stuff shouldn’t be taken too lightly.
And the only way to counter that is to stop caring about the results. And to stop caring, it might mean to adopt a state of “just being”.
When you are simply being, that’s when you have the most control over your dream. When you are simply being, nothing can phase you.
I don’t know that I agree with this. I honestly don’t know what this state of ‘just being’ is. But I don’t see why we should stop caring about what we want to get what we want. That seems contradictory to me. I think we just need to really decide that we truly want something. When we’re really REALLY sure, then the practical work of transforming our mentality should be relatively easy (still some work though).
Originally commented by u/AesirAnatman on 2017-09-11 04:01:55 (dmtk716)
But, you clarify that you don’t mean this in an ordinary sense.
Yeah, it isn’t ego in the usual sense, but it’s more like confidence in yourself, to the point that nothing else can phase you or make you doubt yourself. For example, if someone came up to you and said “I can control everything, the whole universe is under my control”, it would sound like they have a massive, god-like ego.
I would adjust this to say “you need to have confidence that everything in your experience is under your conscious control”. Everything IS under your control, and realizing that doesn’t make everything readily available to be adjusted. So much of your activity is subconscious that the much bigger task, imo, is becoming more conscious of the activity you want to change rather than knowing that it is ultimately your responsibility.
I completely agree.
when 99% of your mentality is still plain old human. That’s a EXTRAORDINARILY hard transition to make, let alone in a short period of time. I think for 99.9999% of people (myself included!) such a transition is probably impossible in one lifetime due to their own contradictory intent.
I agree that it’s a very hard transition, but I do believe it’s possible for most people to achieve close to a full transition in a single life time but it would be very difficult of course. Personally for me, if I don’t get it within this life time, I’ll see it as a failure because I’ll probably have to start from scratch all over again and if I don’t have access to the exact knowledge I have now, I don’t see how I could ever regain my footing. But even if I die tomorrow, at least it won’t be the end of the road, and who knows, maybe I might have access to this knowledge.
They are doubts about the desirability of some psychic transformations. There’s potentially a lot to lose playing around with insanity and I now agree with /u/mindseal that this stuff shouldn’t be taken too lightly.
I can see your point, but the way I see it, is that you go for full control immediately, that means the ability to control everything almost 100% of the time. This way, you can play around with psychic transformations and if you don’t like them, you can easily reverse them. In the case that you don’t have full control, I agree that you can mess up badly and have no way to get out of it. All transformations and magick needs to be perceived as “beneath” you. Just like a luxury car and a $100 mil mansion is nothing to a billionaire with 30 billion to his name, complex psychic transformations should be nothing but a drop in the wind, that you can reinstate or reverse at will.
I don’t know that I agree with this. I honestly don’t know what this state of ‘just being’ is
I suppose “not caring” isn’t the best way to describe it. A state of “just being” would be a state of complete non-attachment. When you’re completely un-attached, contradictory intent is reduced by a large margin. Being non-attached doesn’t mean being separate from your desires, but being non-attached to everything around you. You’ll probably feel more content with your circumstances, regardless of what they are. And because you’re content in the moment, you can intend an outcome and have it happen because the contradictory intent is very minimal.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-11 16:24:23 (dmuhi0e)
Yeah, it isn’t ego in the usual sense, but it’s more like confidence in yourself, to the point that nothing else can phase you or make you doubt yourself. For example, if someone came up to you and said “I can control everything, the whole universe is under my control”, it would sound like they have a massive, god-like ego.
Look at how ordinary people structure their confidence. They’re confident because certain appearances have arisen. They’re confident because people have validated their efforts. This confidence is conditional. If the right appearance does not arise, there is no confidence. If approval does not come, there is no confidence. That’s how ordinary social confidence works.
There is magickal confidence which is metaphysical-grade confidence. It isn’t based on some appearance. It’s based on a principle, or a set of principles. These principles are not subject to disputation even if one could talk about them. These principles precede all possible appearances and they fundamentally cannot ever be confirmed by anyone or anything. They must be comprehended and assumed/held, just from raw comprehension.
This kind of confidence sometimes comes across as a massive ego to others who don’t understand what’s going on. On top of that, people who simply have massive egos but not an ounce of magickal metaphysical-grade confidence also come across as people with massive egos. :) In other words, if you see a massive ego, there is no way to make an inference about what’s causing it.
Other people cannot confirm your metaphysical-grade confidence to you, but you also couldn’t suss out whether or not other appearances are vested with such confidence (assuming appearances had their own interior subjectivity and were not merely your own projections, and of course if you don’t assume that, then there is even less ability to determine whether some appearance that looks like someone has such confidence or not, because you as the author decide that, and it isn’t something you have to figure out… Like the author of Mickey Mouse did not figure out whether it was a mouse or not through some study. It was decided that Mickey is a mouse and so it was.).
Just like a luxury car and a $100 mil mansion is nothing to a billionaire with 30 billion to his name, complex psychic transformations should be nothing but a drop in the wind, that you can reinstate or reverse at will.
That’s only the ideal case. People generally don’t jump from physicalism straight to this ideal case. With the practice of magick and constant contemplation and meditation one gradually, at their option, can arrive to that condition.
For aesthetic reasons some people can choose a low-magick manifestation, or even after having comprehended magickal potential they can go back to playing with physicalist worldviews. The options are endless.
However any recent ex-physicalist will experience a great deal of stickiness and the ability to get temporarily stuck in an undesirable mental frame is certainly available.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-11 16:52:04 (dmui64u)
That’s only the ideal case. People generally don’t jump from physicalism straight to this ideal case. With the practice of magick and constant contemplation and meditation one gradually, at their option, can arrive to that condition.
Some thoughts on this:
The idea would be to get to that state as fast as possible. Whether it really ends up taking 1 year, 20 years, or 50 life times, you will always be able to get there in the fastest possible manner if you frame your perspective such that the desired “end state” is realistically within your grasp and not something that is “far far away”.
That’s why, when you are shedding your physicalist world views, you have to ideally jump at every opportunity to imply against that, by implying that your world is in fact dream-like (or whatever else a practitioner might be personally interested in). You already mentioned that with constant contemplation, meditation, etc.
But it always is important to frame your perspective so that your final state is easily within your grasp, because everything is essentially a reflection of what you think it is. So if you think that it will take multiple life times, it probably will. But if you think it is readily achievable in a single life time (and you have a planned out pathway to get there) then you probably will achieve it in this life time, hopefully.
I plan to jump from 0-100 straight away. So mostly from a tame, physicalist-like existence to an existence where complex psychic transformations are nothing but a drop in the wind. It sounds almost impossible and ridiculous but it’s 100% feasible imo, given enough practice and determination. If I don’t get it in this life time, then I failed.
I think “just being” tends to cultivate the tolerance side much more than it cultivates expressiveness, but a complete mage in my view needs both sides to be well developed.
Yes. Tolerance can curb any suffering that might result from magickal pursuits and expressiveness will nicely complement that of course. They are both absolutely crucial to maintaining a semblance of balance and control. Otherwise an overly eager practitioner could find themselves in a serious bind and their suffering might prevent them from ever getting out, that would be a devastating position to be in. Imagine visiting a hellish realm out of curiosity and being unable to get out because your panic is clouding your mind and locking you in place.
As for cultivating magick, my personal interpretation is that tolerance is first ramped up to maybe 60%-70%, so that “just being” becomes your default state. Then you flip the whole thing around, turn that 60%-70% tolerance to full blown 80%-90% expressiveness in an instant. Building up the tolerance is what takes the longest amount of time in this method, but once its become your default state, the hard work is mostly done and you’re ready to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-11 21:19:25 (dmunpde)
That’s why, when you are shedding your physicalist world views, you have to ideally jump at every opportunity to imply against that, by implying that your world is in fact dream-like (or whatever else a practitioner might be personally interested in). You already mentioned that with constant contemplation, meditation, etc.
But it always is important to frame your perspective so that your final state is easily within your grasp, because everything is essentially a reflection of what you think it is. So if you think that it will take multiple life times, it probably will. But if you think it is readily achievable in a single life time (and you have a planned out pathway to get there) then you probably will achieve it in this life time, hopefully.
Because beliefs taken seriously tend to become self-fulfilling prophecies it’s important to be careful about what one believes.
That said, without meeting one’s present limitations in a sincere manner there is no hope of transforming them.
How to meet one’s temporary limitations without solidifying those limitations into a self-fulfilling prophecy is an art form. One could say I am a self-proclaimed master of that art form.
Resolve is important. The idea of many lifetimes should not be scary or arouse impatience. Even if what I seek is beyond the end of time itself, I will get there. Since that’s the level of my resolve, then it won’t take too long for me. But at the same time I will not trivialize it either but rather meet what’s happening in my mind with sincerity.
I plan to jump from 0-100 straight away. So mostly from a tame, physicalist-like existence to an existence where complex psychic transformations are nothing but a drop in the wind. It sounds almost impossible and ridiculous but it’s 100% feasible imo, given enough practice and determination. If I don’t get it in this life time, then I failed.
This kind of resolve is better than average but it’s not quite immortal diamond-like resolve. You shouldn’t care about time. One should focus on correctness instead of being in a hurry. Haste makes waste.
Neither hurrying nor tarrying, we advance in a manner that’s hard to calculate and understand for ordinary mortals.
As for cultivating magick, my personal interpretation is that tolerance is first ramped up to maybe 60%-70%, so that “just being” becomes your default state. Then you flip the whole thing around, turn that 60%-70% tolerance to full blown 80%-90% expressiveness in an instant. Building up the tolerance is what takes the longest amount of time in this method, but once its become your default state, the hard work is mostly done and you’re ready to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
That’s best left up to each individual imo. Your approach is pretty conservative. It’s really weird. You’re in such hurry but you adopt this very meek approach. I’m in no hurry at all and yet my approach is more aggressive. Like I said, everyone has to decide what they want.
I’ll tell you one thing. Yes, you can learn to be more graceful under pressure and this will prepare you for what’s to come, but there is also merit to banging your head against the wall before being fully prepared. One can then learn a thing or two from that experience that is hard to learn otherwise.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-12 10:14:31 (dmvow34)
How to meet one’s temporary limitations without solidifying those limitations into a self-fulfilling prophecy is an art form. One could say I am a self-proclaimed master of that art form.
Absolutely. Often times a practitioner isn’t even aware that they’re running in circles, it’s very common to see it in the spiritual community, people who think they’re making progress, but unfortunately they don’t realize that they’re just perpetuating their current situation endlessly.
Resolve is important. The idea of many lifetimes should not be scary or arouse impatience. Even if what I seek is beyond the end of time itself, I will get there. Since that’s the level of my resolve, then it won’t take too long for me. But at the same time I will not trivialize it either but rather meet what’s happening in my mind with sincerity.
Impatience is a thorn in the side, it’s very important to cultivate balance. The thought of endless life times sounds tiresome to me, you could say my resolve would be very weak by the time I get to these future life times, still existent but weak. I see it more as an emergency back up, a plan B.
You shouldn’t care about time. One should focus on correctness instead of being in a hurry. Haste makes waste.
Yep, something I’m working on. Trying to rush it is useless. But this is something I want right now and as long as I feel that way, it feels like it’s realistically achievable.
But then again, a physicalist existence is completely out of the question anyway. I’d rather die than go back to impenetrable physicalism, it’s not even remotely an option anymore so I have nothing else but to go as hard as I can at this, this is my sole goal in existence. Failure cannot be an option, even if it does end up taking multiple life times. Who knows even, I’ve probably already done multiple life times with this stuff anyway.
Your approach is pretty conservative. It’s really weird. You’re in such hurry but you adopt this very meek approach. I’m in no hurry at all and yet my approach is more aggressive.
I guess it is fairly conservative. The thing I’ve found for myself, is that I find it hard to adapt to aggressive tactics, for whatever reason, it is a weakness of mine, it becomes like a war of attrition. There is a certain minimum requirement of aggressive tactics that are absolutely necessary to make any progress with s.idealism, so I stick to that minimum level and over compensate by building tolerance or resistance against intrusive patterns and aspects of existence.
Compared to aggressive tactics, it might appear meek but I wouldn’t call it meek so much as it’s like building an impenetrable fortress made up of titanium, a fortress so large and powerful that it deprives everything outside it of fuel and attention.
Build a fortress where nothing can exist within it without the strict permission of the owner and use aggressive tactics to build the foundation of that fortress.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-14 00:22:30 (dmy5oxj)
The thought of endless life times sounds tiresome to me
Not me. I am unstirred and unshaken by that notion.
Think about how mortals relate to time. To a mortal their body’s span of time is everything. That’s why mortals feel time pressure and this can be good and bad, because on one hand it can push them harder than otherwise, but on the other hand it creates a brittle mindset where if you cannot get some results in some rather short and limited time frame, and your time is almost up, you just give up and admit defeat. An immortal never admits defeat and “give up” is not even in their vocabulary. There is “rest” but not “give up.” There is “pause” or “change of plans” but never “give up.” An immortal with an 80 year old body is not thinking that “it’s almost over and I better tally up what I’ve done so far and hang my hat and get ready for the grave or an ash urn.”
Time is an illusion of the mind. Trillions of years pass like a flash of lightning. One breath takes trillions of years to complete. Trillions of years can be seen as a very short time and one breath can be an eternity. The length of one’s arm can be longer than the known universe or it can just be under 3 feet (or under 1 meter). Is the moon for away or is it right here? Is my body right here or is it far away? Conventionally-minded people believe there is only one correct way to answer such questions, but immortals know there is boundless freedom and thus they can answer any of these questions in any which way they want. And usually I imagine it would be in the most empowering, fun and exciting to them way if they want that, or if they want peace then in the most peaceful way. But the point is, the range of thought is what’s different. Mortals have a very narrow range of allowable (“sane”) thought and allowable attitudes and allowable feelings.
I think instead of “beginner’s mind” one needs to adopt an “immortal mind” and proceed from the end. How would an immortal and infinitely wise and powerful version of you look at your situation? Would that one be desperate and in a hurry, or would they suppress both existence and non-existence with just one gaze and one thought and then rest like one all-accomplishing lord? I don’t know. It’s up to you.
In my view it’s essential to give up human identity and change to a mental process of being an immortal or otherwise an adept of some sort. And then use that kind of process to achieve your spiritual goals. Even if you don’t know some details consciously, you know in principle you know them subconsciously because of the original omniscience. And then you know that whatever you may not yet know, invariably, without fail, axiomatically, you will come to know it in the best way possible, for that is your will. So there is a sense of competence and power here, because whether you know it consciously right now or not, you will know whatever you intend to know within a reasonable time frame, and your idea of what is “reasonable” doesn’t have to be the same as a mortal’s.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-14 14:16:27 (dmzc83y)
I think instead of “beginner’s mind” one needs to adopt an “immortal mind” and proceed from the end.
I think this is a good idea, essential even. The deification of one’s own mind. I will inevitably succeed, that is a fact. Even as I type this, success is already mine. So because I’m already inevitably going to achieve it, now the question for me becomes “what if I can achieve it right now?”.
In a way, it’s a sort of personal challenge. If I can achieve it within my set time frame, then it’s all win and zero loss. If I can achieve it right now, then why should I continue to put up with this bland sensory experience?
Deification theoretically takes an instant to achieve. In practice, it’s not like that unfortunately but if I can set the conditions for something as close to instant deification as possible, then I can achieve my final end state as soon as possible.
Sure it sounds really rushed and hurried and it is. You could even say this goal is very obviously the manifestation of a conventional mind still entrenched in physicalist ideas and notions. I’m not going to deny that I’m impatient, maybe that might change down the line but right now I’m very hungry and my prize is just out of reach. Hopefully I’ll have the prize before the impatience grows out of hand.
Of course, if I don’t get it, then it’s not the end of the road. My resolve will probably weaken and that’s where an immortal focused mindset will come in handy. And ultimately all this slogging and struggle to reach the pinnacle will eventually result in reaching that pinnacle, it won’t be any other way.
In my view it’s essential to give up human identity and change to a mental process of being an immortal or otherwise an adept of some sort.
Yeah overall this is a very useful idea to play around with and I think at the very minimum, it should be partially if not fully adopted, regardless of what your method is. It links nicely into the original comment about the “big ego”. Conventional perspectives aren’t useful in the long run.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-15 14:10:42 (dn11m5i)
In order to take full control of the dream, you need to have a big ego. This doesn’t mean a big ego in the usual sense. It doesn’t mean you have to be rude or narcissistic, as is commonly associated with a big ego.
In this case, a big ego means confidence that everything in your experience is under your control. This sounds contradictory to the whole spirituality/metaphysics thing, and in a way it is. But it depends on what your end goals are.
If you want to cease suffering, an ego will only hold you back. And in that case, controlling the dream wouldn’t be on your list of priorities anyway.
But if your end goal is to take control of the whole dream, you need to be supremely confident in your abilities, otherwise you won’t get anywhere. You need to be able to clearly assert an outcome and have full confidence that it will happen. There cannot be any doubt, there cannot be any feebleness or worry. Because the moment you begin to doubt your intention, the more likely you are to re-imply your old situation.
This also means that you shouldn’t be overly forceful or brutish either, because that might imply that without forcing it, you are not capable. You just have to commit and leave it at that.
The big ego is needed because you cannot let the external world dictate your thoughts and worries. Your ego has to be so big and monstrous that nothing external could possibly cause you to doubt your abilities. Most of us have the experience that there are “others” who are above us and hold more power over us, whether socially, politically or economically. Or maybe certain situations hold power over us (e.g illness). A big ego means being completely unaffected by these external circumstances and having complete confidence that you are the sole creator and controller and that nothing external could possibly disrupt your abilities.
That means having an iron hard resolve and committing yourself fully and completely to the desired outcome. Now the problem is that most of us still fall victim to doubt. We could commit ourselves fully, but there will always be a lingering doubt or even a thought “it’s not going to happen, I’m wasting my time”. And the only way to counter that is to stop caring about the results. And to stop caring, it might mean to adopt a state of “just being”.
When you are simply being, that’s when you have the most control over your dream. When you are simply being, nothing can phase you.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-10 19:02:10 (dmt25i6)
I disagree with this. Basically the formula for manifestation is like this:
constructive intent - contradictory intent (which includes habit, fear, ignorance, beliefs to the contrary about why it cannot happen, etc.) = manifestation.
Naturally if you make contradictory intent zero the result will be the best, all else being equal. However, given some contradictory intent, having some pro-magickal-goal intent vs not having any at all will still make some difference. You’re not going to get a gobsmackingly amazing result if the contradictory intent is huge and well-established, but there will still be some effect leaning toward the first term in that equation all else being equal between having some first term vs. having the first term “constructive intent” be zero.
The axiom is that no intent is ever lost. All intentionality is effective. If you cannot observe an effect it doesn’t mean there is not any. We experience this with mundane situations, like if you watch water boil, for some time it looks like the fire under the pot has no effect, and then suddenly the water decides to boil. In reality no heat is ever lost on the water all the while. I’m using this example as a metaphor and it shouldn’t be taken too literally, because after all I am only giving a fairly mechanical image here, which is not all that accurate.
Plus with magick there are two layers of intentionality. Any time you try to change something relatively mundane, a part of what you’re doing is changing that very aspect of experience, but another part of what you’re doing is changing your overall attitude about magick and the possibilities of magick in general. In other words, intents have a meta-component that implies something about how those intents should be interpreted going forward.
So basically magickal practice is a good thing.
I disagree completely. One has to be sincere. If you don’t care about a result you won’t get any result. You must be interested in a result and care about it, but not care to the point of being paralyzed and desperate. If one is desperate, that’s a fragile and disempowered state of mind, but disinterest is another form of disempowerment. The middle way is the best.
What really needs to happen is not so much “just being” but rather a state where you continually think (or better yet, know, if you can), “All appearances are false, only my will is true.” This isn’t a state of “just being” or “hardly giving any fucks.” It’s a state where you are focused on your goal, but you are able to completely disregard the suggestions in the suggestive appearances. In other words, you’re guiding the appearances instead of allowing yourself to be guided and informed by them, as would be the case with the usual evidential thinking.
Paging /u/AesirAnatman to read this reply.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-11 11:10:24 (dmu5t0f)
I agree with all of this, I might not have worded it properly, but we’re on the same page when it comes to intending outcomes.
Yes, I agree. A state of “just being” is more of a transitional tool, rather than a final end state. The means of getting to the state you described will vary for different people, for me personally, I’ve chosen the “just being” state as my means.
I’ll copy the rough definition I had in the reply to Aesir:
A state of “just being” would be a state of complete non-attachment. When you’re completely un-attached, contradictory intent is reduced by a large margin. Being non-attached doesn’t mean being separate from your desires, but being non-attached to everything around you. You’ll probably feel more content with your circumstances, regardless of what they are. And because you’re content in the moment, you can intend an outcome and have it happen because the contradictory intent is very minimal.
So your final state would be one where you are in full conscious control, and by accepting your circumstances as they are, you can fully intend outcomes and have them happen. Because it’s resistance that stops intentions from manifesting. Theoretically, I could intend a certain outcome and it should absolutely be able to manifest cleanly and quickly. The only thing standing in my way is resistance, that’s literally the only thing that is stopping me, it’s nothing more complicated than that. Eliminate resistance by accepting your circumstances (being non-attached) and your intention will manifest, obviously easier said than done of course.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-11 16:47:31 (dmui2b7)
Exactly. It’s actually non-trivial to word things well when explaining magick. It takes a lot of effort and attention and practice.
Whatever floats your boat. From my POV the state I am talking about is so drastically different or even flat-out contradictory to the conventional state, that there is no overly smooth and totally gradual way of getting to it. In my experience it’s a gradual process that’s marked by some challenges, growth spurts, sudden breakthroughs, crushing fears followed by 10 steps back, only to later make 20 steps forward again due to a diamond-like resolve, and so on. It’s not such a simple and straightforward process.
I’ve been harping how “all is mind” all my adult life, but my understanding has grown. It’s not that I ever was wrong in the past or I said wrong things, it’s just that I didn’t know the half of it. I was right, but I didn’t know how and why I was right as exactly as I know it today.
So even if someone understands something correctly, it doesn’t mean they understand if fully. There are progressive stages of deepening that attend even the most correct understanding, provided one keeps making continual efforts and remains resolute.
I’m not against the talk of “just being” but to me it sounds very close to relaxing. I think relaxing is very necessary and is healthy, but how specifically one relaxes, the various details of that relaxation, and the ratio of relaxation to effort, and the details of effort, it all matters in the end. Too much relaxation is not very good either. I think “just being” tends to cultivate the tolerance side much more than it cultivates expressiveness, but a complete mage in my view needs both sides to be well developed.
Here tolerance means being undisturbed and basically “OK” no matter what experience is like. And expressiveness means being able to intend anything at any time, without being led by suggestive appearances. So expressiveness is helped by having a giant imagination and also by not allowing appearances to function as a metaphysical leash to one’s mind (being informed by appearances, and even flowing along with the appearances is still being led by them to some extent, and it’s like being leashed up by what appears).
To me an ideal state is not only just this or only just that. It’s more like this: when I relax, I relax well. When I intend something to happen, I intend well. When I stay still, I stay still well. When I move, I move well. It’s to be excellent in every aspect instead of cultivating this kind of floaty attitude all the time. One has to have a big range instead of cultivating a narrow range. That said, if you were habitually a busybody in your recent past, then to overcome the disease of excessive struggle and effort, as an antidote, one can cultivate “just being.” But once your prior excess has been settled down, it’s better to return to cultivating oneself across a broad range of attitudes instead of just sticking to one attitude of floating along.
I don’t agree. On the contrary – reject your circumstances completely. Don’t accept anything. Don’t even accept the sky and the Earth.
All appearances are false. Only my will is true.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-11 17:09:55 (dmuil0u)
I agree with everything you wrote here.
Did you happen to catch my comment on magical travel at the top of the discussion thread?
I set the discussion thread to default to new comments on top, btw.
Originally commented by u/AesirAnatman on 2017-09-11 13:33:33 (dmuc2xk)
Probably not? I’ll look for it.
That’s great.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-11 13:44:23 (dmuci16)
Hey, thanks for commenting Green-Moon! Here’s my thoughts on what you wrote.
I take issue with the idea that you need a big ego in any ordinary use of the term ego. I think saying it like this can even mislead certain people. But, you clarify that you don’t mean this in an ordinary sense.
I would adjust this to say “you need to have confidence that everything in your experience is under your conscious control”. Everything IS under your control, and realizing that doesn’t make everything readily available to be adjusted. So much of your activity is subconscious that the much bigger task, imo, is becoming more conscious of the activity you want to change rather than knowing that it is ultimately your responsibility.
Depends on what “spirituality” means. I think it mostly lines up with a few interpretations of a few spiritual traditions (i.e. Kashmir Shaivism, Dzogchen, maaaybe Advaita Vedanta, some Neoplatonism, Hermeticism, maybe some others).
I agree with this idea. But it’s no trivial task to simply become supremely confident in your role as a god and to not doubt it when 99% of your mentality is still plain old human. That’s a EXTRAORDINARILY hard transition to make, let alone in a short period of time. I think for 99.9999% of people (myself included!) such a transition is probably impossible in one lifetime due to their own contradictory intent.
Try this reversal of perspective on. That “external world” is actually your own subconscious. And yes you can reprogram your subconscious, but it is no trivial task for most people and you probably have a lot of good reasons, at least what were once good reasons, to have your subconscious set up the way it is. It would be wise to assess those perhaps unconscious motives and learn more about how they contradict your more conscious motives and really see what you’re willing to give up and what you’re not willing to give up.
So yes. If you are confident enough in the powers of your mind you can totally adjust and reprogram your subconscious and just ignore whatever the old programming is. But you might find that some of that old programming is actually serving a useful purpose as you try to overwrite it. In that case your obstacle isn’t your ability to reprogram your mind, it’s your own desires. It’s a contradiction of intent, which plays a huge role in suffering, imo. Resolving those contradictory intentions is really beneficial.
Hmm. Let’s just try not to grit our teeth to get something we think we want only to find out later that we actually destroyed something we liked. What you say here isn’t wrong, but some doubts aren’t just doubts about one’s ability. They are doubts about the desirability of some psychic transformations. There’s potentially a lot to lose playing around with insanity and I now agree with /u/mindseal that this stuff shouldn’t be taken too lightly.
I don’t know that I agree with this. I honestly don’t know what this state of ‘just being’ is. But I don’t see why we should stop caring about what we want to get what we want. That seems contradictory to me. I think we just need to really decide that we truly want something. When we’re really REALLY sure, then the practical work of transforming our mentality should be relatively easy (still some work though).
Originally commented by u/AesirAnatman on 2017-09-11 04:01:55 (dmtk716)
I agree with everything here. Thanks for paging me.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-11 11:11:49 (dmu5vak)
Yeah, it isn’t ego in the usual sense, but it’s more like confidence in yourself, to the point that nothing else can phase you or make you doubt yourself. For example, if someone came up to you and said “I can control everything, the whole universe is under my control”, it would sound like they have a massive, god-like ego.
I completely agree.
I agree that it’s a very hard transition, but I do believe it’s possible for most people to achieve close to a full transition in a single life time but it would be very difficult of course. Personally for me, if I don’t get it within this life time, I’ll see it as a failure because I’ll probably have to start from scratch all over again and if I don’t have access to the exact knowledge I have now, I don’t see how I could ever regain my footing. But even if I die tomorrow, at least it won’t be the end of the road, and who knows, maybe I might have access to this knowledge.
I can see your point, but the way I see it, is that you go for full control immediately, that means the ability to control everything almost 100% of the time. This way, you can play around with psychic transformations and if you don’t like them, you can easily reverse them. In the case that you don’t have full control, I agree that you can mess up badly and have no way to get out of it. All transformations and magick needs to be perceived as “beneath” you. Just like a luxury car and a $100 mil mansion is nothing to a billionaire with 30 billion to his name, complex psychic transformations should be nothing but a drop in the wind, that you can reinstate or reverse at will.
I suppose “not caring” isn’t the best way to describe it. A state of “just being” would be a state of complete non-attachment. When you’re completely un-attached, contradictory intent is reduced by a large margin. Being non-attached doesn’t mean being separate from your desires, but being non-attached to everything around you. You’ll probably feel more content with your circumstances, regardless of what they are. And because you’re content in the moment, you can intend an outcome and have it happen because the contradictory intent is very minimal.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-11 16:24:23 (dmuhi0e)
Look at how ordinary people structure their confidence. They’re confident because certain appearances have arisen. They’re confident because people have validated their efforts. This confidence is conditional. If the right appearance does not arise, there is no confidence. If approval does not come, there is no confidence. That’s how ordinary social confidence works.
There is magickal confidence which is metaphysical-grade confidence. It isn’t based on some appearance. It’s based on a principle, or a set of principles. These principles are not subject to disputation even if one could talk about them. These principles precede all possible appearances and they fundamentally cannot ever be confirmed by anyone or anything. They must be comprehended and assumed/held, just from raw comprehension.
This kind of confidence sometimes comes across as a massive ego to others who don’t understand what’s going on. On top of that, people who simply have massive egos but not an ounce of magickal metaphysical-grade confidence also come across as people with massive egos. :) In other words, if you see a massive ego, there is no way to make an inference about what’s causing it.
Other people cannot confirm your metaphysical-grade confidence to you, but you also couldn’t suss out whether or not other appearances are vested with such confidence (assuming appearances had their own interior subjectivity and were not merely your own projections, and of course if you don’t assume that, then there is even less ability to determine whether some appearance that looks like someone has such confidence or not, because you as the author decide that, and it isn’t something you have to figure out… Like the author of Mickey Mouse did not figure out whether it was a mouse or not through some study. It was decided that Mickey is a mouse and so it was.).
That’s only the ideal case. People generally don’t jump from physicalism straight to this ideal case. With the practice of magick and constant contemplation and meditation one gradually, at their option, can arrive to that condition.
For aesthetic reasons some people can choose a low-magick manifestation, or even after having comprehended magickal potential they can go back to playing with physicalist worldviews. The options are endless.
However any recent ex-physicalist will experience a great deal of stickiness and the ability to get temporarily stuck in an undesirable mental frame is certainly available.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-11 16:52:04 (dmui64u)
Some thoughts on this:
The idea would be to get to that state as fast as possible. Whether it really ends up taking 1 year, 20 years, or 50 life times, you will always be able to get there in the fastest possible manner if you frame your perspective such that the desired “end state” is realistically within your grasp and not something that is “far far away”.
That’s why, when you are shedding your physicalist world views, you have to ideally jump at every opportunity to imply against that, by implying that your world is in fact dream-like (or whatever else a practitioner might be personally interested in). You already mentioned that with constant contemplation, meditation, etc.
But it always is important to frame your perspective so that your final state is easily within your grasp, because everything is essentially a reflection of what you think it is. So if you think that it will take multiple life times, it probably will. But if you think it is readily achievable in a single life time (and you have a planned out pathway to get there) then you probably will achieve it in this life time, hopefully.
I plan to jump from 0-100 straight away. So mostly from a tame, physicalist-like existence to an existence where complex psychic transformations are nothing but a drop in the wind. It sounds almost impossible and ridiculous but it’s 100% feasible imo, given enough practice and determination. If I don’t get it in this life time, then I failed.
Yes. Tolerance can curb any suffering that might result from magickal pursuits and expressiveness will nicely complement that of course. They are both absolutely crucial to maintaining a semblance of balance and control. Otherwise an overly eager practitioner could find themselves in a serious bind and their suffering might prevent them from ever getting out, that would be a devastating position to be in. Imagine visiting a hellish realm out of curiosity and being unable to get out because your panic is clouding your mind and locking you in place.
As for cultivating magick, my personal interpretation is that tolerance is first ramped up to maybe 60%-70%, so that “just being” becomes your default state. Then you flip the whole thing around, turn that 60%-70% tolerance to full blown 80%-90% expressiveness in an instant. Building up the tolerance is what takes the longest amount of time in this method, but once its become your default state, the hard work is mostly done and you’re ready to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-11 21:19:25 (dmunpde)
Because beliefs taken seriously tend to become self-fulfilling prophecies it’s important to be careful about what one believes.
That said, without meeting one’s present limitations in a sincere manner there is no hope of transforming them.
How to meet one’s temporary limitations without solidifying those limitations into a self-fulfilling prophecy is an art form. One could say I am a self-proclaimed master of that art form.
Resolve is important. The idea of many lifetimes should not be scary or arouse impatience. Even if what I seek is beyond the end of time itself, I will get there. Since that’s the level of my resolve, then it won’t take too long for me. But at the same time I will not trivialize it either but rather meet what’s happening in my mind with sincerity.
This kind of resolve is better than average but it’s not quite immortal diamond-like resolve. You shouldn’t care about time. One should focus on correctness instead of being in a hurry. Haste makes waste.
Neither hurrying nor tarrying, we advance in a manner that’s hard to calculate and understand for ordinary mortals.
That’s best left up to each individual imo. Your approach is pretty conservative. It’s really weird. You’re in such hurry but you adopt this very meek approach. I’m in no hurry at all and yet my approach is more aggressive. Like I said, everyone has to decide what they want.
I’ll tell you one thing. Yes, you can learn to be more graceful under pressure and this will prepare you for what’s to come, but there is also merit to banging your head against the wall before being fully prepared. One can then learn a thing or two from that experience that is hard to learn otherwise.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-12 10:14:31 (dmvow34)
Absolutely. Often times a practitioner isn’t even aware that they’re running in circles, it’s very common to see it in the spiritual community, people who think they’re making progress, but unfortunately they don’t realize that they’re just perpetuating their current situation endlessly.
Impatience is a thorn in the side, it’s very important to cultivate balance. The thought of endless life times sounds tiresome to me, you could say my resolve would be very weak by the time I get to these future life times, still existent but weak. I see it more as an emergency back up, a plan B.
Yep, something I’m working on. Trying to rush it is useless. But this is something I want right now and as long as I feel that way, it feels like it’s realistically achievable.
But then again, a physicalist existence is completely out of the question anyway. I’d rather die than go back to impenetrable physicalism, it’s not even remotely an option anymore so I have nothing else but to go as hard as I can at this, this is my sole goal in existence. Failure cannot be an option, even if it does end up taking multiple life times. Who knows even, I’ve probably already done multiple life times with this stuff anyway.
I guess it is fairly conservative. The thing I’ve found for myself, is that I find it hard to adapt to aggressive tactics, for whatever reason, it is a weakness of mine, it becomes like a war of attrition. There is a certain minimum requirement of aggressive tactics that are absolutely necessary to make any progress with s.idealism, so I stick to that minimum level and over compensate by building tolerance or resistance against intrusive patterns and aspects of existence.
Compared to aggressive tactics, it might appear meek but I wouldn’t call it meek so much as it’s like building an impenetrable fortress made up of titanium, a fortress so large and powerful that it deprives everything outside it of fuel and attention.
Build a fortress where nothing can exist within it without the strict permission of the owner and use aggressive tactics to build the foundation of that fortress.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-14 00:22:30 (dmy5oxj)
Not me. I am unstirred and unshaken by that notion.
Think about how mortals relate to time. To a mortal their body’s span of time is everything. That’s why mortals feel time pressure and this can be good and bad, because on one hand it can push them harder than otherwise, but on the other hand it creates a brittle mindset where if you cannot get some results in some rather short and limited time frame, and your time is almost up, you just give up and admit defeat. An immortal never admits defeat and “give up” is not even in their vocabulary. There is “rest” but not “give up.” There is “pause” or “change of plans” but never “give up.” An immortal with an 80 year old body is not thinking that “it’s almost over and I better tally up what I’ve done so far and hang my hat and get ready for the grave or an ash urn.”
Time is an illusion of the mind. Trillions of years pass like a flash of lightning. One breath takes trillions of years to complete. Trillions of years can be seen as a very short time and one breath can be an eternity. The length of one’s arm can be longer than the known universe or it can just be under 3 feet (or under 1 meter). Is the moon for away or is it right here? Is my body right here or is it far away? Conventionally-minded people believe there is only one correct way to answer such questions, but immortals know there is boundless freedom and thus they can answer any of these questions in any which way they want. And usually I imagine it would be in the most empowering, fun and exciting to them way if they want that, or if they want peace then in the most peaceful way. But the point is, the range of thought is what’s different. Mortals have a very narrow range of allowable (“sane”) thought and allowable attitudes and allowable feelings.
I think instead of “beginner’s mind” one needs to adopt an “immortal mind” and proceed from the end. How would an immortal and infinitely wise and powerful version of you look at your situation? Would that one be desperate and in a hurry, or would they suppress both existence and non-existence with just one gaze and one thought and then rest like one all-accomplishing lord? I don’t know. It’s up to you.
In my view it’s essential to give up human identity and change to a mental process of being an immortal or otherwise an adept of some sort. And then use that kind of process to achieve your spiritual goals. Even if you don’t know some details consciously, you know in principle you know them subconsciously because of the original omniscience. And then you know that whatever you may not yet know, invariably, without fail, axiomatically, you will come to know it in the best way possible, for that is your will. So there is a sense of competence and power here, because whether you know it consciously right now or not, you will know whatever you intend to know within a reasonable time frame, and your idea of what is “reasonable” doesn’t have to be the same as a mortal’s.
Originally commented by u/mindseal on 2017-09-14 14:16:27 (dmzc83y)
I think this is a good idea, essential even. The deification of one’s own mind. I will inevitably succeed, that is a fact. Even as I type this, success is already mine. So because I’m already inevitably going to achieve it, now the question for me becomes “what if I can achieve it right now?”.
In a way, it’s a sort of personal challenge. If I can achieve it within my set time frame, then it’s all win and zero loss. If I can achieve it right now, then why should I continue to put up with this bland sensory experience?
Deification theoretically takes an instant to achieve. In practice, it’s not like that unfortunately but if I can set the conditions for something as close to instant deification as possible, then I can achieve my final end state as soon as possible.
Sure it sounds really rushed and hurried and it is. You could even say this goal is very obviously the manifestation of a conventional mind still entrenched in physicalist ideas and notions. I’m not going to deny that I’m impatient, maybe that might change down the line but right now I’m very hungry and my prize is just out of reach. Hopefully I’ll have the prize before the impatience grows out of hand.
Of course, if I don’t get it, then it’s not the end of the road. My resolve will probably weaken and that’s where an immortal focused mindset will come in handy. And ultimately all this slogging and struggle to reach the pinnacle will eventually result in reaching that pinnacle, it won’t be any other way.
Yeah overall this is a very useful idea to play around with and I think at the very minimum, it should be partially if not fully adopted, regardless of what your method is. It links nicely into the original comment about the “big ego”. Conventional perspectives aren’t useful in the long run.
Originally commented by u/Green-Moon on 2017-09-15 14:10:42 (dn11m5i)