Okay well that was 50 years ago, and the kind of thinking that got us here in the first place. What’s the way forward?
1 in 100 is genocide? Genocide involves the intent to totally eliminate a people.
You’re saying that’s Israels intent and goal, right?
Why, in your view, are they failing so spectacularly at that?
They have absolute air superiority in the region and could annihilate every structure in Gaza within twenty minutes, I have no doubt.
Why is the daily death toll trending downward with only 1% deceased? Shouldn’t Israel be getting more efficient at killing civilians if genocide is their intent?
There’s plenty of quotes from senior Israel officials and military leaders stating genocidal intent - I’ll share a handful if needed.
They could flatten all Palestinian territory without breaking a sweat (and are well on the way) - they need to slow-walk it to keep the US on-side, and funded Hamas to kill Israelis to create the pretext for what they’re doing now (again, from the horse’s mouth if needed). Israel are rational enough to understand US support would be a massive blow economically, militarily, and optically that’s simply not worth it.
Saying exactly what they’re doing,
backing the rise of terrorists to create pretext,
Killing a meaningful portion of the population,
Rendering the whole of Gaza uninhabitable (UN’s words) along with much of the other territory - through bombings, cuts to water, power food, aid, medical supplies, and trade (including the building supplies that would make rebuilding possible),
Halting movement - particularly the ability to return home if you ever need to leave,
encouraging Israeli “settlers” to displace ~10% of the population
Shrugging their shoulders at those “settlers” and Israelis broadly killing Palestinians,
Conducting targeted strikes on the media in Palestinian territory,
Committing constant warcrimes
Israel having the means to commit this genocide
At what point will you look at Israel’s genocidal rhetoric and actions and recognise them as genocidal? Is this only something that’ll be settled after every last Palestinian is dead?
Are you able to point to meaningful differences in rhetoric or action between the Israeli government and Novemberpogrome-era Nazi Germany?
You make good points. The number dead of 25,000~ is widely reported in the press and, as I understand it, compiled from records from Gaza, not Israel, so I find it credible. Your claim that 250x (6,500,000) more people have died is incredible, in light of the fact that the entirety of Gaza is only 2.5 million people and we can look and count the nearly 1.2 million of them who have signed in at UN refugee camps.
The whole of Gaza is uninhabitable because someone turned its foundation into swiss cheese with a bunch of unpermitted tunneling.
Yes - Gaza being habitable (albeit an open-air concentration camp) prior to October 7th has everything to do with the kind of Israeli-built tunnels under the hospitals they bombed, and nothing to do with the massive bombing campaign.
It’s becoming clear why you didn’t answer where the line for genocide is, knowing that Gaza being levelled apparently has nothing to do with Israel bombing the shit out of them.
The line for genocide is when a state starts killing people based on their genes with the intent to eliminate those genes from the population. I’m not playing hide the ball. You’re the one saying it’s a genocide. I don’t have to prove why it’s not, you have to prove why it is.
You’ve made some arguments, but to me 0.004%, or even 1%, combined with the fact that Israel certainly has the means to turn Gaza and the West Bank into dust within twenty minutes, speaks for itself.
Also am able to seperate the current far right leadership in Israel from the country of Israel and the people of Israel, just as I am able to seperate Hamas from Gazans.
As far as I am concerned though, the Gazan people put Hamas in charge and sold out any country, and any hope they might of had of having Gaza as their country on October 7. I find Israel has just cause to annihilate that tunnel network. It is unfortunate the Gazans put Hamas in charge and Hamas decided to conduct their war right below people’s houses and underneath essential infrastructure. As a result, the entire area is condemned from a structural and public health standpoint. They forfeited their home on October 7 to kill like 1,000 civilians, for what, disagreeing as to which version of Sky Daddy is true? The obvious response was going to be that Israel would bomb the tunnels, it’s a just and proportionate response. When that’s done, nothing left to do but pave over the rubble and start rebuilding. Israel’s claim to Gaza may have at one time been illegal, but it’s now the superior claim, either way. Gaza is now a collapsed state, if it even was a state. Hamas used it as an instrumentality of war and terrorism and dug unsafe tunnels under the city, and the whole place is unstable now that the tunnels are bombed out. I’d call it irredentism now, because the goal is to make it habitable and goveranable again.
Remaining Hamas should be tried in court as terrorists or handled as prisoners of war. And for any found still resisting, trying to effectuate additional tunnel warfare, rocket attacks, or terrorism, a just and moral sentence is death.
The daily death tolls are going to continue trending downward though, because really, it’s not a genocide. Bet. If they do, will you admit then it’s not a genocide?
Okay well that was 50 years ago, and the kind of thinking that got us here in the first place. What’s the way forward?
1 in 100 is genocide? Genocide involves the intent to totally eliminate a people.
You’re saying that’s Israels intent and goal, right?
Why, in your view, are they failing so spectacularly at that?
They have absolute air superiority in the region and could annihilate every structure in Gaza within twenty minutes, I have no doubt.
Why is the daily death toll trending downward with only 1% deceased? Shouldn’t Israel be getting more efficient at killing civilians if genocide is their intent?
There’s plenty of quotes from senior Israel officials and military leaders stating genocidal intent - I’ll share a handful if needed.
They could flatten all Palestinian territory without breaking a sweat (and are well on the way) - they need to slow-walk it to keep the US on-side, and funded Hamas to kill Israelis to create the pretext for what they’re doing now (again, from the horse’s mouth if needed). Israel are rational enough to understand US support would be a massive blow economically, militarily, and optically that’s simply not worth it.
Time will tell.
Israeli leadership already have.
0.004%, though. The military’s actions do not match the rhetoric of a few extremist elected officials.
They’ve killed more than 250x what you’re saying.
Aside from
At what point will you look at Israel’s genocidal rhetoric and actions and recognise them as genocidal? Is this only something that’ll be settled after every last Palestinian is dead?
Are you able to point to meaningful differences in rhetoric or action between the Israeli government and Novemberpogrome-era Nazi Germany?
You make good points. The number dead of 25,000~ is widely reported in the press and, as I understand it, compiled from records from Gaza, not Israel, so I find it credible. Your claim that 250x (6,500,000) more people have died is incredible, in light of the fact that the entirety of Gaza is only 2.5 million people and we can look and count the nearly 1.2 million of them who have signed in at UN refugee camps.
The whole of Gaza is uninhabitable because someone turned its foundation into swiss cheese with a bunch of unpermitted tunneling.
That wasn’t your claim - you said 0.004% of the population - it’s widely, credibily reported they’ve killed over 1% of the population.
Yes - Gaza being habitable (albeit an open-air concentration camp) prior to October 7th has everything to do with the kind of Israeli-built tunnels under the hospitals they bombed, and nothing to do with the massive bombing campaign.
It’s becoming clear why you didn’t answer where the line for genocide is, knowing that Gaza being levelled apparently has nothing to do with Israel bombing the shit out of them.
The line for genocide is when a state starts killing people based on their genes with the intent to eliminate those genes from the population. I’m not playing hide the ball. You’re the one saying it’s a genocide. I don’t have to prove why it’s not, you have to prove why it is.
You’ve made some arguments, but to me 0.004%, or even 1%, combined with the fact that Israel certainly has the means to turn Gaza and the West Bank into dust within twenty minutes, speaks for itself.
Also am able to seperate the current far right leadership in Israel from the country of Israel and the people of Israel, just as I am able to seperate Hamas from Gazans.
As far as I am concerned though, the Gazan people put Hamas in charge and sold out any country, and any hope they might of had of having Gaza as their country on October 7. I find Israel has just cause to annihilate that tunnel network. It is unfortunate the Gazans put Hamas in charge and Hamas decided to conduct their war right below people’s houses and underneath essential infrastructure. As a result, the entire area is condemned from a structural and public health standpoint. They forfeited their home on October 7 to kill like 1,000 civilians, for what, disagreeing as to which version of Sky Daddy is true? The obvious response was going to be that Israel would bomb the tunnels, it’s a just and proportionate response. When that’s done, nothing left to do but pave over the rubble and start rebuilding. Israel’s claim to Gaza may have at one time been illegal, but it’s now the superior claim, either way. Gaza is now a collapsed state, if it even was a state. Hamas used it as an instrumentality of war and terrorism and dug unsafe tunnels under the city, and the whole place is unstable now that the tunnels are bombed out. I’d call it irredentism now, because the goal is to make it habitable and goveranable again.
Remaining Hamas should be tried in court as terrorists or handled as prisoners of war. And for any found still resisting, trying to effectuate additional tunnel warfare, rocket attacks, or terrorism, a just and moral sentence is death.
The daily death tolls are going to continue trending downward though, because really, it’s not a genocide. Bet. If they do, will you admit then it’s not a genocide?
0.004% of all Palestinians. 1% of Gaza.
The claim is that there is a genocide of Palestinian people.
Genocide means they are trying for 100%.