• @thantik
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    5 months ago

    I edited my reply to expound upon my thoughts. But mostly it comes down to – because houses require vast resources to build. You need people in the steel industry, wood/lumber industries, a set of housing standards, architects, etc.

    Unless these things become so cheap that they’re basically costless, ensuring a house for everyone free of charge is a monumentally burdensome task.

    • Zagorath
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      195 months ago

      Something shouldn’t have to be free to be a human right. That’s an extremely right-wing American point of view, where they only believe in so-called “negative” rights.

      A right to housing wouldn’t mean builders and their suppliers have to work for free. That’s the same kind of nonsense reasoning libertarians and conservatives use to argue against free healthcare.

      A right to housing would impose an obligation on governments to do everything they can to ensure housing is readily available to anyone who wants it. Whether by ensuring that everyone can afford housing (economic policies that lower the cost of housing and/or put more money on people’s pockets) or by directly ensuring the government itself can give people a place to live if they can’t afford it. Ideally a mix of both.

      • @thantik
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        5 months ago

        What you described there is not what a human right consists of. Sure, governments should do exactly what you say, but something considered a ‘human right’ has much higher standards. It MUST be met. It’s not an optional strive-to-do-our-best situation.

        • @DoYouNot
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          135 months ago

          I mean healthcare is definitely a human right, but there is always more we could be doing. That’s a kind of arbitrary distinction that I don’t think adds anything to the discussion here.

          Basic human needs are basic human rights. I really do think it’s as simple as that.

          • @thantik
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            -85 months ago

            Healthcare is not a human right. It’s a societal right granted to you by those around you.

            • @DoYouNot
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              35 months ago

              Deep in that American politique, eh?

              • @thantik
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                5 months ago

                It’s called philosophy. You should try it sometime. Understanding the worlds truths at a deeper level allows you to more precisely consolidate them into a unified opinion of things. Helps to be concise and rigorously authentic to their principles.

                • @DoYouNot
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                  45 months ago

                  I’m not sure blasting adhoc justifications for what you feel is really philosophy, but if that’s what we’re doing… My mistake. Philosophy then. So tell me, Socrates, what is a human right?

        • Zagorath
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          75 months ago

          Umm, no. That’s just not correct. A human right is anything a human should have the right to. End of.

          The practicalities of how we achieve that are a separate concern.

          • @thantik
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            5 months ago

            A human right is anything a human should have the right to.

            In that case, you have no rights at all. Not even to speech, or the right not to be killed. “Rights” are invented by the society we live in. You have literally none in the natural world. As it exists, “Rights” are a religious idea. (Hence, “God-given rights”)

            The practicalities are of the utmost concern, because those practicalities are governed by the society which recognizes them as rights. As of now, there is no “human right to shelter”.

            • Zagorath
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              105 months ago

              you have no rights at all

              Wrong

              Not even to speech, or the right not to be killed

              Wrong

              “Rights” are invented by the society we live in

              Correct

              You have literally none in the natural world

              Correct

              As it exists, “Rights” are a religious idea

              Lol what? Where did you even get that idea?

            • @[email protected]
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              35 months ago

              Govt. does its best to ensure citizens aren’t murdered, yet it still happens.

              Shouldn’t housing be similarly considered a right like the right to life?

              • @thantik
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                -25 months ago

                Housing isn’t free. Not killing someone is.

                  • @thantik
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                    25 months ago

                    That’s enforcement, those police officers don’t need to exist for you not to kill someone…

                    Or do they?

      • @thantik
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        5 months ago

        Absolutely it is. Because our “rights” are just invented bullshit brought about by the society we’ve created. You don’t have the right for me not to murder you in the lawless nothingness of nature. Therefore, if it’s difficult as a society to supply it – we can, AND DO, reject things as human rights.

        As it is, clean water is not a human right. Housing is not a human right. You WANT it to be, but your feelings here obviously don’t have a speck of reality within them.

        • @[email protected]
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          5 months ago

          What kind of backwards arsed ayn rand bullshit is this.

          You do realise society actually only came into existence in and of itself via a loose collective agreement of behaviours, yes? These behaviours were not determined by whether or not they fit into a too hard basket, but whether or not they ensured the social strucuture remained intact for the good of the collective. Those eventually became codes of laws, and now relatively recently the conceept of human rights.

          No shit housing was never ranked a right or even on the radar until recently, it wasn’t an issue that affected enough of the population that it started to threaten social cohesion. It is now.

          You’re acting like lawless nature should dictate our actions when the sole fuckin’ reason we’re the dominant species is our ability and innate nature that works outside these parameters. It’s laughable

    • @[email protected]
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      45 months ago

      Money is fake. It doesn’t exist. Your labor has value. You can use your labor to make other people’s lives easier. They can use their labor to make your life easier. Like building stuff? Cool. I’ll make your wardrobe if you build my house. No banks or real estate agents necessary.

      • @[email protected]
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        75 months ago

        A reasonably stable currency is incredibly useful as an abstraction for value. Do you farm potatoes? Do you need a difficult medical procedure? I guarantee you, the surgeon, support staff, and the hospital are not much interested in being paid in a sufficient amount of potatoes.