• Zagorath
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    1911 months ago

    Something shouldn’t have to be free to be a human right. That’s an extremely right-wing American point of view, where they only believe in so-called “negative” rights.

    A right to housing wouldn’t mean builders and their suppliers have to work for free. That’s the same kind of nonsense reasoning libertarians and conservatives use to argue against free healthcare.

    A right to housing would impose an obligation on governments to do everything they can to ensure housing is readily available to anyone who wants it. Whether by ensuring that everyone can afford housing (economic policies that lower the cost of housing and/or put more money on people’s pockets) or by directly ensuring the government itself can give people a place to live if they can’t afford it. Ideally a mix of both.

    • @thantik
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      11 months ago

      What you described there is not what a human right consists of. Sure, governments should do exactly what you say, but something considered a ‘human right’ has much higher standards. It MUST be met. It’s not an optional strive-to-do-our-best situation.

      • @DoYouNot
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        1311 months ago

        I mean healthcare is definitely a human right, but there is always more we could be doing. That’s a kind of arbitrary distinction that I don’t think adds anything to the discussion here.

        Basic human needs are basic human rights. I really do think it’s as simple as that.

        • @thantik
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          -811 months ago

          Healthcare is not a human right. It’s a societal right granted to you by those around you.

          • @DoYouNot
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            311 months ago

            Deep in that American politique, eh?

            • @thantik
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              11 months ago

              It’s called philosophy. You should try it sometime. Understanding the worlds truths at a deeper level allows you to more precisely consolidate them into a unified opinion of things. Helps to be concise and rigorously authentic to their principles.

              • @DoYouNot
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                411 months ago

                I’m not sure blasting adhoc justifications for what you feel is really philosophy, but if that’s what we’re doing… My mistake. Philosophy then. So tell me, Socrates, what is a human right?

      • Zagorath
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        711 months ago

        Umm, no. That’s just not correct. A human right is anything a human should have the right to. End of.

        The practicalities of how we achieve that are a separate concern.

        • @thantik
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          11 months ago

          A human right is anything a human should have the right to.

          In that case, you have no rights at all. Not even to speech, or the right not to be killed. “Rights” are invented by the society we live in. You have literally none in the natural world. As it exists, “Rights” are a religious idea. (Hence, “God-given rights”)

          The practicalities are of the utmost concern, because those practicalities are governed by the society which recognizes them as rights. As of now, there is no “human right to shelter”.

          • Zagorath
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            1011 months ago

            you have no rights at all

            Wrong

            Not even to speech, or the right not to be killed

            Wrong

            “Rights” are invented by the society we live in

            Correct

            You have literally none in the natural world

            Correct

            As it exists, “Rights” are a religious idea

            Lol what? Where did you even get that idea?

          • @[email protected]
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            311 months ago

            Govt. does its best to ensure citizens aren’t murdered, yet it still happens.

            Shouldn’t housing be similarly considered a right like the right to life?

            • @thantik
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              -211 months ago

              Housing isn’t free. Not killing someone is.

                • @thantik
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                  211 months ago

                  That’s enforcement, those police officers don’t need to exist for you not to kill someone…

                  Or do they?