The justices settled a question left open in 2018: whether businesses open to the public and engaged in expression may refuse to serve customers based on religious convictions.
Liberal here… Straight white male for reference… I’ve never seen the problem with this. Why force a biggot to do business with people? They should be called out and forgotten about.
I understand if they provide a service that cannot be acquired elsewhere, but that’s rarely the case anymore.
It opens the door for people to discriminate against other protected categories of people.
Don’t like gays, don’t serve them.
Don’t Chinese people, don’t serve them.
Don’t like people over 50 or under 30, don’t serve them.
Don’t like women, don’t serve them.
Don’t like me because I’m a veteran, don’t serve me.
Basically any protected class can now be discriminated against if it aligns with your strongly held beliefs.
Bunch of originalist bullshit is what it really is.
I get what you’re saying, but I still don’t think we should be forcing bigots to do business with people. Let the bigots be flagged as bigots, so we all know which business to avoid.
Alternatively, we force them to do business with those people, and they do a shit job without revealing the reason.
Consider this in the context of a required service.
What if the doctor refused service because you were queer? How about lawyers?
Cakes and web design are used as the examples to make the problem seem less severe. It can and will extend much farther than what this ruling is based on.
But those are wildly different types of services. Are you saying that this court case makes it so that doctors can refuse service to homosexuals now?
It was my understanding that the nature of the business (ie, not a required service) and amount of available alternatives was a factor into why they should be allowed to refuse service.
It’s just an example of a necessary service. Keep in mind, many of those service providers require a decade of education, professional experience, and licensure before being allowed to practice. Sure, a website designer can say “nuh uh” and you can go on living. But if a doctor or lawyer, both necessary and in short supply, both say “nuh uh” then you could literally wind up dead or in jail.
I get where you’re coming from, but if some business wants to discriminate against me, they can discriminate themselves all the way to bankruptcy. I’d prefer that rather than them being legally forced to do shitty work for me because they’re dicks.
I hope you left that bar and posted that story about the bar and bartender on every social media website you could find. As well as leave reviews literally everywhere.
What if every bar in town refuses to serve black people? What if instead of bars, it was the only supermarket in town? Welcome to the South pre-civil rights. And don’t tell me that people didn’t know about it since it was pre-internet. It was widely-known about by pretty much everyone that being black in the South meant you were not allowed into all sorts of businesses.
And that’s what you want to go back to. That’s so liberal of you.
Again, there’s a difference between saying no businesses in town will serve them and they have plenty of access to the service, but want to force the biggots to serve them. If it’s a problem with access, yes, government should be able to step in and force the hands of the bigots.
I will say, though, I don’t know the implications of the SC judgement. Maybe they don’t care about access, I just know when I looked into this a while ago, access was a big part of the case. The [probably fake] customer could have gone anywhere, but was trying to force the biggots to do business with them.
And that’s what you want to go back to. That’s so liberal of you.
I also think we live in a wildly different society than the south in the 60s. No way we will go back there. If society ends up trending that way, I absolutely think the government should step in and reverse course, but I just don’t think that will happen.
There are enough small towns where the permitting process legally allows the city council to prevent the establishment of new businesses and effectively create local monopolies. No new grocery stores, hardware stores, etc. Guess what - if you piss them off, you cant get your house fixed or buy food. Build a restaurant? Well, you’re going to have to make daily runs to another city for supplies.
This ruling gives those small towns even more control because TPTB can blackball anyone now with impunity.
I think the fact we had Trump as President for 4 years shows how little it would take to get swaths of this country back to “the south in the 60s.” And as one who grew up in California in the 60s, the poison was spread far from the south. And it persists to this day. Look at the way color imbalance tracks with wealth imbalance.
That last part is especially true. Even if they can’t openly declare it, people need to do things like grocery shop and work where they live. If they can’t do it, then they need to leave. Essentially forcing places to become all white, cis, het
People keep saying “But they will go out of business!” No they won’t. We have seen this before. Chances has it they will he perfectly fine, because a lot of people won’t care enough to do anything. Like people who kept going to Chick Fil A, even after we learned the owner was donating the conversion therapy camps.
Some people really look back at the Civil Rights Movement as a mistake and pretend to be the rational ones.
Liberal here… Straight white male for reference… I’ve never seen the problem with this. Why force a biggot to do business with people? They should be called out and forgotten about.
I understand if they provide a service that cannot be acquired elsewhere, but that’s rarely the case anymore.
It opens the door for people to discriminate against other protected categories of people.
Don’t like gays, don’t serve them. Don’t Chinese people, don’t serve them. Don’t like people over 50 or under 30, don’t serve them. Don’t like women, don’t serve them. Don’t like me because I’m a veteran, don’t serve me.
Basically any protected class can now be discriminated against if it aligns with your strongly held beliefs.
Bunch of originalist bullshit is what it really is.
I get what you’re saying, but I still don’t think we should be forcing bigots to do business with people. Let the bigots be flagged as bigots, so we all know which business to avoid.
Alternatively, we force them to do business with those people, and they do a shit job without revealing the reason.
Consider this in the context of a required service.
What if the doctor refused service because you were queer? How about lawyers?
Cakes and web design are used as the examples to make the problem seem less severe. It can and will extend much farther than what this ruling is based on.
But those are wildly different types of services. Are you saying that this court case makes it so that doctors can refuse service to homosexuals now?
It was my understanding that the nature of the business (ie, not a required service) and amount of available alternatives was a factor into why they should be allowed to refuse service.
It’s just an example of a necessary service. Keep in mind, many of those service providers require a decade of education, professional experience, and licensure before being allowed to practice. Sure, a website designer can say “nuh uh” and you can go on living. But if a doctor or lawyer, both necessary and in short supply, both say “nuh uh” then you could literally wind up dead or in jail.
“Let the Free Market decide! After all, it put a stop to Jim Crow!
Oh. Wait. “
Alternatively, we don’t humour their bullshit and massively fine and/or jail them until their disgusting hatred isn’t worth pursuing for them.
I know I’m in the minority in this thread. I’ll just say that I don’t think you can punish the bigotry out of people. But they can and do change.
You mean like with Chick Fil A when everyone was gonna stop going there becauae the owners were bigots?
Hmm, I don’t remember Chick Fil A refusing to serve gay people.
I don’t like cops, now I legally don’t have to serve them right?
I get where you’re coming from, but if some business wants to discriminate against me, they can discriminate themselves all the way to bankruptcy. I’d prefer that rather than them being legally forced to do shitty work for me because they’re dicks.
I saw a bartender at a restaurant tell a black person “I don’t serve N$&@$!” I think that should be illegal. This is in the same vein.
Agree to disagree.
I hope you left that bar and posted that story about the bar and bartender on every social media website you could find. As well as leave reviews literally everywhere.
What if every bar in town refuses to serve black people? What if instead of bars, it was the only supermarket in town? Welcome to the South pre-civil rights. And don’t tell me that people didn’t know about it since it was pre-internet. It was widely-known about by pretty much everyone that being black in the South meant you were not allowed into all sorts of businesses.
And that’s what you want to go back to. That’s so liberal of you.
Again, there’s a difference between saying no businesses in town will serve them and they have plenty of access to the service, but want to force the biggots to serve them. If it’s a problem with access, yes, government should be able to step in and force the hands of the bigots.
I will say, though, I don’t know the implications of the SC judgement. Maybe they don’t care about access, I just know when I looked into this a while ago, access was a big part of the case. The [probably fake] customer could have gone anywhere, but was trying to force the biggots to do business with them.
I also think we live in a wildly different society than the south in the 60s. No way we will go back there. If society ends up trending that way, I absolutely think the government should step in and reverse course, but I just don’t think that will happen.
There are enough small towns where the permitting process legally allows the city council to prevent the establishment of new businesses and effectively create local monopolies. No new grocery stores, hardware stores, etc. Guess what - if you piss them off, you cant get your house fixed or buy food. Build a restaurant? Well, you’re going to have to make daily runs to another city for supplies.
This ruling gives those small towns even more control because TPTB can blackball anyone now with impunity.
How do you effectively apply “you can refuse service to anyone unless the whole town refuses service to a specific group of people” as a law?
I think the fact we had Trump as President for 4 years shows how little it would take to get swaths of this country back to “the south in the 60s.” And as one who grew up in California in the 60s, the poison was spread far from the south. And it persists to this day. Look at the way color imbalance tracks with wealth imbalance.
Fancy that.
Thanks!
Because they’re going to bring back the whites only restroom and the sundown town.
That last part is especially true. Even if they can’t openly declare it, people need to do things like grocery shop and work where they live. If they can’t do it, then they need to leave. Essentially forcing places to become all white, cis, het
People keep saying “But they will go out of business!” No they won’t. We have seen this before. Chances has it they will he perfectly fine, because a lot of people won’t care enough to do anything. Like people who kept going to Chick Fil A, even after we learned the owner was donating the conversion therapy camps.
Some people really look back at the Civil Rights Movement as a mistake and pretend to be the rational ones.