Quark’s refusal to take anything seriously made me really angry. about halfway through the episode i was hoping Worf would just decapitate him, although i thought it was pretty funny when Gowron is all like, “You tried to take down a great house… with money???!!! P’tach!”
I’m the total opposite. I find the whole Klingon obsession with honor annoying, so watching a Ferengi uncover an entire plot to take down a house because the Klingons couldn’t conceive of something so “dishonorable” is just funny lol
while I do find the Klingon rigidity around “honor” both annoying and, at this point, simply unimaginative and boring, I found the fact that Gowron was even willing to entertain the whole exercise, that the Klingon High Council itself was open-minded enough - in the face of their inflexible culture and honor, etc - to allow a Ferengi in and tell them where the bear shits without, ya know, getting all racist and xenophobic about it was pretty cool of them. In a way, all of that boring, annoying Klingon honor bullshit really served to juxtapose the silly Ferengi crap in a way that made them look surprisingly open-minded and flexible in this episode. and it was funny in this case.
so… as annoying and dull as it can be, it has its place.
on other occasions, as with when Kor met Jadzia for the first time and simply was happy to see his old friend Dax, recognizing Jadzia as the same person as he had know Curzon shows open-mindedness to gender-acceptance. This is extended to other Klingons explaining how women in their culture are seen as equals, warriors who fight alongside them in battle, etc., and other dialogue cues that, although there is a caste system with warriors on top, wrt sex, race, gender, etc, there is equality in there society.
edit: of note: I know that in my example from Blood Oath Kang and Trelane in Koloth cosplay didn’t accept Jadzia at first, but I’ll remind you that
spoiler
that was because they were really planning a suicide mission so they could die as old men with honor and they didn’t want Jadzia, a young woman, to die with them needlessly, a they certainly could get their vengeance without her.
That’s the thing though. I think people talk about “silly Ferengi crap” and while obviously they are intended as a sort of parody of American capitalism and all that, they are a ruthlessly logical species and culture.
I think the Klingons tolerated Quark because the situation was so strange, and Quark exploited the Klingon’s system of honor. The Klingons were shellshocked from the idea of a Klingon woman marrying a Ferengi to take over her house. I think they were genuinely a bit curious to see how a Ferengi would respect their rules, and it seems Quark demonstrated an adequate understanding of how their honor worked (even though he didn’t agree at all with it) for them to give him a chance. He used two trait which any good entrepreneur would have: the ability to take risky moves, and good social awareness.
you make a good point, but that point also happens to support my position. sure, maybe they were being a little less open-minded and a bit more self-serving in this case than i made them out, but they’re still pretty open-minded for a species which presents itself with such rigid cultural values.
Part of the shame of it is too, that Quark could give some pretty darn good advice when asked. But they never used that plot device very much, which I thought was a shame because with his devious wisdom, he really had a unique take on things.
Quark, on his own, and when he dropped his guard, was great-- especially when he had his interactions with Odo. Like, when they had their friends-not-friends moments. He also had soe interesting insights into humans and humanity from the perspective of a Ferengi, or just an alien in general. from Siege of AR-558:
Quark: Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people… will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes.
then, of course, there’s this gem form The Way of the Warrior:
Quark: I want you to try something for me. Take a sip of this. Elim Garak : What is it? Quark: A human drink. It’s called root beer. Elim Garak : [unwilling] Uh, I don’t know… Quark : Come on, aren’t you just a little bit curious? [Garak sighs, takes a sip and gags] Quark : What do you think? Elim Garak : It’s vile! Quark : I know. It’s so bubbly, and cloying, and happy. Elim Garak : Just like the Federation. Quark : But you know what’s really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it. Elim Garak : It’s insidious! Quark : Just like the Federation.
it certainly is interesting to get a different perspective on humans from a race other than the vulcans. Here’s another time Quark opined on humanity, this time to Sisko (from The Jem’Hadar):
Quark: I think I figured out why Humans don’t like Ferengi. Sisko: Not now, Quark. Quark: The way I see it, Humans used to be a lot like Ferengi: greedy, acquisitive, interested only in profit. We’re a constant reminder of a part of your past you’d like to forget. Sisko: Quark, we don’t have time for this. Quark: You’re overlooking something. Humans used to be a lot worse than the Ferengi: slavery, concentration camps, interstellar wars. We have nothing in our past that approaches that kind of barbarism. You see? We’re nothing like you… we’re better.
I really tried to like them, mostly because Armin Shimerman was amazing as Quark (and ok, Rahm was kinda lovable in his own stupid way). But Ferengi Love Songs and all the creepy family shit ruined it completely for me. I’d give all my latinum to have nothing to do with Ferenginar.
They made it to 2D in DS9, but that’s still not enough dimensions. Doesn’t mean other important characters weren’t left wanting in a similar way, but still.
I know I am in the minority, but Goddamn I can’t stand the Ferengi
Because of your lack of profit?
They probably just need to get some oo-mox
there are literally dozens of us! dozens!
i like the ferengi in small dozes, but i can’t stand the ferengi episodes. it’s just too much, and i skip them.
No Latinum for you then!
i’ll just make a withdrawal from the Bank of Morn :P
Slightly disgusting, yet very profitable.
What about the House of Quark. Does the presence of Klingons dilute the Ferengi frustration, or amplify it?
Quark’s refusal to take anything seriously made me really angry. about halfway through the episode i was hoping Worf would just decapitate him, although i thought it was pretty funny when Gowron is all like, “You tried to take down a great house… with money???!!! P’tach!”
I’m the total opposite. I find the whole Klingon obsession with honor annoying, so watching a Ferengi uncover an entire plot to take down a house because the Klingons couldn’t conceive of something so “dishonorable” is just funny lol
while I do find the Klingon rigidity around “honor” both annoying and, at this point, simply unimaginative and boring, I found the fact that Gowron was even willing to entertain the whole exercise, that the Klingon High Council itself was open-minded enough - in the face of their inflexible culture and honor, etc - to allow a Ferengi in and tell them where the bear shits without, ya know, getting all racist and xenophobic about it was pretty cool of them. In a way, all of that boring, annoying Klingon honor bullshit really served to juxtapose the silly Ferengi crap in a way that made them look surprisingly open-minded and flexible in this episode. and it was funny in this case.
so… as annoying and dull as it can be, it has its place.
on other occasions, as with when Kor met Jadzia for the first time and simply was happy to see his old friend Dax, recognizing Jadzia as the same person as he had know Curzon shows open-mindedness to gender-acceptance. This is extended to other Klingons explaining how women in their culture are seen as equals, warriors who fight alongside them in battle, etc., and other dialogue cues that, although there is a caste system with warriors on top, wrt sex, race, gender, etc, there is equality in there society.
edit: of note: I know that in my example from Blood Oath Kang and Trelane in Koloth cosplay didn’t accept Jadzia at first, but I’ll remind you that
spoiler
that was because they were really planning a suicide mission so they could die as old men with honor and they didn’t want Jadzia, a young woman, to die with them needlessly, a they certainly could get their vengeance without her.
That’s the thing though. I think people talk about “silly Ferengi crap” and while obviously they are intended as a sort of parody of American capitalism and all that, they are a ruthlessly logical species and culture.
I think the Klingons tolerated Quark because the situation was so strange, and Quark exploited the Klingon’s system of honor. The Klingons were shellshocked from the idea of a Klingon woman marrying a Ferengi to take over her house. I think they were genuinely a bit curious to see how a Ferengi would respect their rules, and it seems Quark demonstrated an adequate understanding of how their honor worked (even though he didn’t agree at all with it) for them to give him a chance. He used two trait which any good entrepreneur would have: the ability to take risky moves, and good social awareness.
you make a good point, but that point also happens to support my position. sure, maybe they were being a little less open-minded and a bit more self-serving in this case than i made them out, but they’re still pretty open-minded for a species which presents itself with such rigid cultural values.
Part of the shame of it is too, that Quark could give some pretty darn good advice when asked. But they never used that plot device very much, which I thought was a shame because with his devious wisdom, he really had a unique take on things.
Quark, on his own, and when he dropped his guard, was great-- especially when he had his interactions with Odo. Like, when they had their friends-not-friends moments. He also had soe interesting insights into humans and humanity from the perspective of a Ferengi, or just an alien in general. from Siege of AR-558:
then, of course, there’s this gem form The Way of the Warrior:
The first one is one of the best quotes in Trek
it certainly is interesting to get a different perspective on humans from a race other than the vulcans. Here’s another time Quark opined on humanity, this time to Sisko (from The Jem’Hadar):
“Do you think they’ll be able to save us?”
I really tried to like them, mostly because Armin Shimerman was amazing as Quark (and ok, Rahm was kinda lovable in his own stupid way). But Ferengi Love Songs and all the creepy family shit ruined it completely for me. I’d give all my latinum to have nothing to do with Ferenginar.
By any chance, are you German? Because of ‘Rahm’…
Haha. Also, ich lerne tatsächlich seit 3 Jahren Deutschesprache.
But no, I last watched Voyager before that, 5-6 years ago. I just assumed that’s how it was spelled. TIL it’s Rom.
Das ist lustig! Rahm ist ein anderes Wort für Sahne, also cream.
Ja! As I recall he’s kind of a momma’s boy so it sorta fits.
They are way too much one-dimensional.
If you’ve watched DS9, you know that’s not true.
They tried to do this with Quark family, but that was still very plain.
They made it to 2D in DS9, but that’s still not enough dimensions. Doesn’t mean other important characters weren’t left wanting in a similar way, but still.