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- cross-posted to:
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A crowd destroyed a driverless Waymo car in San Francisco::A Waymo car was destroyed in San Francisco as a crowd began vandalizing it and ultimately set the car on fire. Nobody was in the vehicle at the time.
I already addressed that. I meant household accidents as a whole. You’re trying to deflect from the fact that you failed to look up statistics while accusing me of the same.
Have you noticed something about those statistics Germany vs. USA? How the ratio is approximately 3:1 vs. 5:1? And that’s with the Autobahn having long stretches with no speed limit? What does Germany do that the US doesn’t, that could be copied as tried+true approach to drastically reduce traffic accidents?
Why are you so focussed on self-driving? It’s unproven technology, at best. Level 4 tech does not exist, all those accreditations are in places with very questionable regulatory regimes. Audi and Honda have proper Level 3 cars, allowing autonomous driving while in a traffic jam, that’s it. That’s it, the rest is wishful thinking and “trust us bro we have venture capital” which works in Palo Alto and Shenzen but nowhere else.
AGAIN, because you can’t get it through your skull apparently, I am in favour of building more transit and actively vote and letter write and campaign for it. Jesus fucking christ, if you respond one more time without understanding that I’m just blocking you and fucking off because this is insufferable at this point.
But the point is that regardless of what we want, reality is still reality, American suburbanites are still American suburbanites, and 20 years from now there will still be cars on the road, a lot of them.
Because hundreds of thousands of people die from human drivers and far more are injured and maimed, every single year. How is that so fucking hard to understand?
Waymo has driven millions of miles in Phoenix and San Francisco with three incidents that produced minor injuries. Are those extremely limited conditions? Yes, intentionally so. But level 4 driving does exist within those conditions, and the cars training in those conditions are preparing for them to expand to less limited conditions.
And because 20 years from now the public transit utopia that we both want won’t exist in the US, but self driving cars might be ubiquitous.
Then why don’t you argue in favour of it? I’m not opposed to automated driving, all I’m saying is that it doesn’t address what you think it addresses. It mostly addresses money billionaires have burning in their pocket.
That’s not an answer. Why, among all the gazillion of approaches to reduce traffic deaths, are you focussed specifically, and quite pin-pointedly so, on self-driving? What makes it so more effective, so more realistic, so more existing, than raised intersections? What makes the rest of the US so fundamentally more backwards than, of all the people, the Mormons?
I’ll tell you: Because there’s an illness that has befallen US progressivism, and that is to confuse “new” with “good”, and “already exists” with “not worth it”.
Not with that attitude certainly not, no, it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Stop talking to me, convince your local city council to build a raised intersection you will have done more for humanity.
I do, frequently, but we’re in a thread discussing the merits of autonomous vehicles vs normal car, not the merits of public transit.
Because that’s what this fucking thread is about. You want to start a thread on the merits of roundabouts vs cross intersections and you’ll see me arguing for roundabouts.
You clearly have not been to the US if you think the Mormons are the most stubborn and backwards part of it. Go to Florida, go to any Trump supporting county, drive from a city to the various suburbs and country homes and see how spread out they are. Look at how half the US votes. Utah and the Mormons are an exception and odd sect that isn’t remotely representative of America at large, they also mass built housing for the homeless, something that nowhere else in America has done. And guess what? Utah still has a ton of cars.
And you know what makes self driving cars different from every solution that you mention? They have the potential to be an exact drop in replacement for existing cars and can work absolutely everywhere they do, including all edge cases.
Bruh, you can’t fucking read. I’ve already told you I’m not American and that I do that. Jesus fucking christ your brain is incapable of not just thinking “haha I’m arguing with generic tech bro dufus, let me clown on how tech bro dufus he is ha ha ha”
And the merits are “people don’t like it”. As evidenced by the very title. You asked me why anyone would destroy an automated car, I gave you an answer, you didn’t accept it but neither provided an alternative. Maybe ponder about it a bit more.
No, this thread is not about how cool autonomous driving it, but about a crowd destroying an autonomous car. Why did they do that?
Overall, nice try at diversion, as if any discussion on the internet had ever been limited to the original topic, wait, let me prove it: Hitler! Godwin!. Really you should try to employ less rhetorical tricks. They may work on you, they rarely if ever work on me.
Point taken, but if the Mormons can do it, why can’t California? They at least were smart enough to abolish single family home zoning and didn’t blink when Musk tried to torpedo California HSR (which is what his hyperloop nonsense is about), but that was the state forcing the municipalities to enact a bare minimum of zoning sanity that they themselves were unwilling to do. I think Portland leads the pack in that regard, at least among the more prominent locations.
Maybe that’s exactly the issue: Things like streetcar suburb aren’t new. They are what existed until they got outlawed by a failed innovation. Mormons might be conservative enough to look back and say “yep that was better”, while California liberals are, just as you, saying “muuuuuuh but we need something shiny and new, old solutions can’t fix anything”.
And I have the potential to be an exact drop in replacement for Jesus Christ. Why do you insist the fix to the issues be a drop-in replacement? Conservative, afraid of change, much?
Apparently doesn’t stop you to be car-brained like an American. As to techbro: Don’t act and argue and talk like one and I’ll stop calling you that.
Lmfao, so your answer at the end of all this, is “automated cars won’t happen because people don’t like them”??
And yet your alternative is for every American to give up their car and take public transit. lmfao.
Learn how to read.
Learn how to read.
No. My answer is “automated cars will continue to be opposed by the collective unconscious until urban planning related things that are of importance to it are addressed (such as housing, equity, but also plain liability see asphalt deserts), and at that point autonomous cars will not be needed any more”. But that’s a mouthful, I thought you intelligent enough to understand it without being spoon-fed given that you claim to be such an advocate for public transit and modern urban planning, being aware of all its its advantages in most exquisite and intricate detail.
Autonomous cars will not, just to open another can of worms, re-establish third places in the urban fabric. Do you know what third places are, their function, their importance, and how car-centric design destroyed them?
Lmfao, ok bud, please point me to the jurisdiction where drivers aren’t killing thousands of people a year.
You seem to have forgotten the parts of the discussion where you failed to account for even a modicum of edge cases on an even 20 year timeline.
Everyone getting around by streetcar suburbs made sense 20 years ago too, but I’m glad we didn’t stop all road safety engineering on the assumption we’d do it just because it the logical collective thing to do. You’re living in a fantasy where you’re planning only for the best possible outcome.
We can probably both agree though, that the actual thrashing of the car was an inevitable result of ever growing wealth inequality.
I never said that all cars must be abolished. Go, go back in the discussion and check. The one group I addressed specifically was commuters: It’s the biggest group, most easy to address to at least 95%.
If you’re talking about the US: No, the US didn’t suddenly start to safety engineer, they’re still hostile to pedestrians over there. On the contrary, 20 years ago SUVs which make children invisible didn’t really exist yet. If you’re talking about Europe: We never abolished public transit. We made mistakes weakening it, but we didn’t abolish it, and engineering for pedestrian safety goes back to at least the 60s, and by the 70s at least the Netherlands had found their bearings.
Of course. I mean if you want to chauffeur everyone in an individual autonomous taxi during rush hour everyone will need one of those, leased or owned, either way it’s going to be expensive so people understand on an instinctive level that those cars aren’t a solution while wealth inequality persists. As said: Public transport side-steps that issue. We haven’t been able to fix wealth inequality in the last two centuries you won’t do it in the next two decades, or at least we shouldn’t bet urbanism on that happening.
Meanwhile, roads are up for reconstruction all the time anyways, how about making sure not a single one gets rebuilt along car-brain principles.