Imagine for a moment that you are a dumbass 17 year-old high school senior in 2002. Your grades are shit and you’re just barely going to graduate. Many of your friends are excited about going to college, while you are pretty sure that working behind the counter at the local gas station is basically all you’ve got.
Suddenly, a wild recruiter appears! He has a cool looking uniform and people say “Thank you for your service” and he gets treated with respect wherever he goes. He says he’s got a $30k signing bonus for you. He says you can choose whatever job you want, you don’t have to go get shot at. He says in 4 years when you get out, you’ll have skills and experience those college pussies won’t, you’ll get a good job and they’ll bitch on the internet about working at Starbucks. He says you can even go to college if you want, Uncle Sam will pick up the tab and you can spend 4 years getting drunk and laid.
You’ve got to think about this in the context of the time, too. This was actually almost exactly me - I graduated in 2002; I had fine grades, but this was immediately following 9/11, and the fact of the matter is that patriotism was being pushed hard from every angle. We were being fed propaganda from every media outlet. It wasn’t just recruiters pulling the normal bullshit, they were using 9/11 to spin a narrative where the country is in danger and only we, as that time’s 18 year olds - could possibly save it, and if we didn’t enlist, we were basically personally responsible for whatever happened. That, on the backs of our parents’ encouragement - you’ve got to remember that many of our fathers had fought in wars themselves, and many had glorified it in stories, and we were simply not equipped to look at any of it critically yet - made it very hard to say “No”.
I enlisted; I spent 3 months in boot camp, 2 months of that with pneumonia and eventually they sent me home, and frankly I think that’s the most fortunate thing that’s ever happened to me. I wouldn’t have been fighting - I would have been sitting behind a desk writing code - but I don’t think that matters much in the end.
It’s really easy for someone who wasn’t in that position to say “Oh, yeah, anyone who falls for that is just stupid”, but the fact of the matter is, propaganda is effective. That’s why it continues to be used, all over the world, and at that particular time, the propaganda was driving patriotism and paving the way for military enlistment and the addition of laws that stripped away rights and made everyone think mass surveillance was good and necessary, and it did its job.
Jesus, dude. Chill a bit. They were kids who were sold a bill of goods. Some of them legitimately believed they were doing something good and noble when they enlisted, and the people in power abused that ideology. It’s not the veteran’s fault. Hold people in power responsible, not the people who trusted them.
Edit: there’s no sense in arguing with you on this. I just saw your other comments, seems like you’ve got zero empathy. Wish you the best, champ. Hope you find some compassion in your life.
I don’t think this is the forum to have this conversation, and anything I say will just prompt you to personally attack me. I think you should open your mind to other points of view and think critically.
There’s a difference of being complicit and taking place in killing women/children and men in the thousands than being in the US military. Sit the fuck down and treat people how you expect to be treated.
Blaming the soldiers is like calling up Verizon because your internet is out and yelling at the CSR you talk to like it’s their fault. They (generally speaking) didn’t ask to get sent to kill brown people for oil companies’ profits.
those people “blindly” signing up see no other way to get an education or even survive. they’re victims of systemic issues too and your lack of empathy for them disturbs me
You’re a fucking asshole. Why not conversate instead of being an aggressive little fuck? It’s possible not to be an unmoveable prick and talk instead of being an opinionated little dicked fuck, you know that right? Actually no, I highly doubt you do know that. You probably have the “it’s the internet bro” type of mindset and don’t have the brain to actually hold a legit conversation without having to yell your point and feel like you’ve “won.”
Your tiny world view and your lack of empathy for people is sickening and I hope you get some help getting your head out of your ass.
I mean, that’s fine. He can try to have a conversation about it instead of being a total tool about it though. Not everything is black and white and this guy pretends he’s the smartest in the room for seeing it exactly as that, while being a total asshole about it.
Just because you are on the internet doesn’t mean you have to be right and have a “checkmate” type moment while also hurling insults like you’re a toddler. Discuss, hear other people’s sides with open minds, and treat others the way you’d like to be treated. It’s not that hard lol.
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Imagine for a moment that you are a dumbass 17 year-old high school senior in 2002. Your grades are shit and you’re just barely going to graduate. Many of your friends are excited about going to college, while you are pretty sure that working behind the counter at the local gas station is basically all you’ve got.
Suddenly, a wild recruiter appears! He has a cool looking uniform and people say “Thank you for your service” and he gets treated with respect wherever he goes. He says he’s got a $30k signing bonus for you. He says you can choose whatever job you want, you don’t have to go get shot at. He says in 4 years when you get out, you’ll have skills and experience those college pussies won’t, you’ll get a good job and they’ll bitch on the internet about working at Starbucks. He says you can even go to college if you want, Uncle Sam will pick up the tab and you can spend 4 years getting drunk and laid.
Would you go, as this dipshit 17 year-old?
You’ve got to think about this in the context of the time, too. This was actually almost exactly me - I graduated in 2002; I had fine grades, but this was immediately following 9/11, and the fact of the matter is that patriotism was being pushed hard from every angle. We were being fed propaganda from every media outlet. It wasn’t just recruiters pulling the normal bullshit, they were using 9/11 to spin a narrative where the country is in danger and only we, as that time’s 18 year olds - could possibly save it, and if we didn’t enlist, we were basically personally responsible for whatever happened. That, on the backs of our parents’ encouragement - you’ve got to remember that many of our fathers had fought in wars themselves, and many had glorified it in stories, and we were simply not equipped to look at any of it critically yet - made it very hard to say “No”.
I enlisted; I spent 3 months in boot camp, 2 months of that with pneumonia and eventually they sent me home, and frankly I think that’s the most fortunate thing that’s ever happened to me. I wouldn’t have been fighting - I would have been sitting behind a desk writing code - but I don’t think that matters much in the end.
It’s really easy for someone who wasn’t in that position to say “Oh, yeah, anyone who falls for that is just stupid”, but the fact of the matter is, propaganda is effective. That’s why it continues to be used, all over the world, and at that particular time, the propaganda was driving patriotism and paving the way for military enlistment and the addition of laws that stripped away rights and made everyone think mass surveillance was good and necessary, and it did its job.
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Jesus, dude. Chill a bit. They were kids who were sold a bill of goods. Some of them legitimately believed they were doing something good and noble when they enlisted, and the people in power abused that ideology. It’s not the veteran’s fault. Hold people in power responsible, not the people who trusted them.
Edit: there’s no sense in arguing with you on this. I just saw your other comments, seems like you’ve got zero empathy. Wish you the best, champ. Hope you find some compassion in your life.
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I don’t think this is the forum to have this conversation, and anything I say will just prompt you to personally attack me. I think you should open your mind to other points of view and think critically.
Have a good day, and be well.
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There’s a difference of being complicit and taking place in killing women/children and men in the thousands than being in the US military. Sit the fuck down and treat people how you expect to be treated.
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Blaming the soldiers is like calling up Verizon because your internet is out and yelling at the CSR you talk to like it’s their fault. They (generally speaking) didn’t ask to get sent to kill brown people for oil companies’ profits.
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those people “blindly” signing up see no other way to get an education or even survive. they’re victims of systemic issues too and your lack of empathy for them disturbs me
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You’re a fucking asshole. Why not conversate instead of being an aggressive little fuck? It’s possible not to be an unmoveable prick and talk instead of being an opinionated little dicked fuck, you know that right? Actually no, I highly doubt you do know that. You probably have the “it’s the internet bro” type of mindset and don’t have the brain to actually hold a legit conversation without having to yell your point and feel like you’ve “won.”
Your tiny world view and your lack of empathy for people is sickening and I hope you get some help getting your head out of your ass.
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Ain’t no one seething. I’m just calling a spade a spade.
I think that they would rather have empathy for the victims of the USA’s invasions
I mean, that’s fine. He can try to have a conversation about it instead of being a total tool about it though. Not everything is black and white and this guy pretends he’s the smartest in the room for seeing it exactly as that, while being a total asshole about it.
Just because you are on the internet doesn’t mean you have to be right and have a “checkmate” type moment while also hurling insults like you’re a toddler. Discuss, hear other people’s sides with open minds, and treat others the way you’d like to be treated. It’s not that hard lol.
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