It’s insane to me that anyone in Canada would hold this opinion given that our economy is on the verge of ruin due to the lack of available labour and the massive amount of retirees we have. Where do they think this money will come from?
We don’t have a lack of labour. That’s a myth the neoliberals are pushing to keep wages low. There’s a lack of businesses who are willing to raise their wages to the point that people would be willing to work for them.
Exactly. We bring in immigrants because our economy is addicted to paying poverty wages. People will post the studies showing that immigration doesn’t suppress the wages of good paying jobs as though that’s a winning argument, but what they’re ignoring is that that’s because the economy has a built-in assumption that immigrants are all paid starvation wages.
I agree with the sentiment that wages need to be rise to provide a better quality of life.
I do have some questions however, if we did not have a larger working class than retired how could we sustainably fund their retirement?
It’s a well-known fact that our population demographics are only getting older. He only way I could see this being sustainable is if you restructured our economic system.
The current working population only partially funds the retired income. Significant part of retirement income in Canada is prepaid in the form of the CPP which is sustainable, institutional pension plans, and private savings beyond, often in the form of real estate and other assets. The money the current working population pays for retirees is towards OAS and GIS.
But in my opinion there’s a better way to look at it by looking at the real economy, not the financial metadata. Can we feed, clothe, house and medicate our retired population? How many working people do we need to do that? I think given how much food we produce and waste and how few people produce it, that food isn’t a problem. Neither is clothing. Housing on the other hand could be a problem since it already is. The same is true for healthcare. Can these be solved so that we don’t reach a place where we run out of people to sustain the retired population? Housing can for sure. Once built it requires a lot less labor to maintain. Healthcare, isn’t that obvious. Personally I think it’s solvable but I can’t present an obvious argument.
Finally, we have acute income problems with the working populationtoday. As in, a good chunk of the working population can’t afford to live where it works. If we don’t solve them, any real problems with retirees become worse. For example PSWs being close to minimum wage workers, can’t afford to live where they have to care for retirees.
I would say it’s a self solving problem. There’s a negative feedback effect between economic outcomes and population growth. Plus shitloads of automation technology reducing the demand for certain kinds of work. We don’t need to keep suppressing wages by flooding the labour market.
Immigration with the express purpose of keeping labour costs low (which is the Liberals’ stated reason for their current approach) is basically trading human dignity in the form of a living wage in exchange for subsidizing businesses who refuse to pay their workers more.
Because I said it’s the myth of labour shortage that keeps wages low. As in, the neoliberals say that there is a labour shortage, which lets them justify policies that increase the supply of labour.
Not only this unemployment number does not count people who have given up looking, but 5.8% is 2.3 million people looking for a job at a wage they can’t find. This is definitely not full employment, by definition. No conspiracy required.
How do you define full employment then? Economists say roughly 5%, as you need a little flex since you can’t perfectly match everyone with a job. The link from Stats Canada also included the participation rate, which is 65.3%. This is fairly typical and doesn’t suggest the unemployment rate is boosted by people leaving the workforce.
We are also in the middle of a housing crisis that has been developing for years. Canada is in a tough spot to agressively grow from immigration and many people feel like their quality of life is threatened by the economic conditions, housing crisis and healthcare crisis. It is understandable to be worried more people without the housing to support them could stress these systems further.
Don’t forget onerous code issues have increased the cost of building a lot. Every year there’s another change that increases cost for minimal improvement in safety or efficiency. It’s like the people writing code have their raises based on how many unnecessary changes they get accepted into the rules every year.
They’ve been told it’s the fault of the others, the immigrants. And they believed that.
It’s the same crew who supported the Karen Convoy of Needle-weenie Arsonists, those who flew the racist flags and blocked parliament and held up trade. Guns? Yep. Bigotry? Yep. Supported by the Conservative Party members? Yep.
It’s insane to me that anyone in Canada would hold this opinion given that our economy is on the verge of ruin due to the lack of available labour and the massive amount of retirees we have. Where do they think this money will come from?
We don’t have a lack of labour. That’s a myth the neoliberals are pushing to keep wages low. There’s a lack of businesses who are willing to raise their wages to the point that people would be willing to work for them.
And keeping businesses dependent on sub-livable wage labor is problematic.
Exactly. We bring in immigrants because our economy is addicted to paying poverty wages. People will post the studies showing that immigration doesn’t suppress the wages of good paying jobs as though that’s a winning argument, but what they’re ignoring is that that’s because the economy has a built-in assumption that immigrants are all paid starvation wages.
That’s an argument to end the exploitative TFW program and increase unionization rates. Not against immigration generally.
I agree. But that’s not the approach the Liberal party is taking, and their approach deserves criticism.
Absolutely agreed on that.
Agreed on this absolute agreement. 😁
I agree with the sentiment that wages need to be rise to provide a better quality of life.
I do have some questions however, if we did not have a larger working class than retired how could we sustainably fund their retirement?
It’s a well-known fact that our population demographics are only getting older. He only way I could see this being sustainable is if you restructured our economic system.
The current working population only partially funds the retired income. Significant part of retirement income in Canada is prepaid in the form of the CPP which is sustainable, institutional pension plans, and private savings beyond, often in the form of real estate and other assets. The money the current working population pays for retirees is towards OAS and GIS.
But in my opinion there’s a better way to look at it by looking at the real economy, not the financial metadata. Can we feed, clothe, house and medicate our retired population? How many working people do we need to do that? I think given how much food we produce and waste and how few people produce it, that food isn’t a problem. Neither is clothing. Housing on the other hand could be a problem since it already is. The same is true for healthcare. Can these be solved so that we don’t reach a place where we run out of people to sustain the retired population? Housing can for sure. Once built it requires a lot less labor to maintain. Healthcare, isn’t that obvious. Personally I think it’s solvable but I can’t present an obvious argument.
Finally, we have acute income problems with the working population today. As in, a good chunk of the working population can’t afford to live where it works. If we don’t solve them, any real problems with retirees become worse. For example PSWs being close to minimum wage workers, can’t afford to live where they have to care for retirees.
I would say it’s a self solving problem. There’s a negative feedback effect between economic outcomes and population growth. Plus shitloads of automation technology reducing the demand for certain kinds of work. We don’t need to keep suppressing wages by flooding the labour market.
Immigration with the express purpose of keeping labour costs low (which is the Liberals’ stated reason for their current approach) is basically trading human dignity in the form of a living wage in exchange for subsidizing businesses who refuse to pay their workers more.
How would a lack of labour keep wages low? It’s the most basic law of economics, low supply means high prices.
Because I said it’s the myth of labour shortage that keeps wages low. As in, the neoliberals say that there is a labour shortage, which lets them justify policies that increase the supply of labour.
Feb 2024 unemployment rate was 5.8%. That’s basically full employment. Unless you think that’s a conspiracy?
Not only this unemployment number does not count people who have given up looking, but 5.8% is 2.3 million people looking for a job at a wage they can’t find. This is definitely not full employment, by definition. No conspiracy required.
How do you define full employment then? Economists say roughly 5%, as you need a little flex since you can’t perfectly match everyone with a job. The link from Stats Canada also included the participation rate, which is 65.3%. This is fairly typical and doesn’t suggest the unemployment rate is boosted by people leaving the workforce.
We are also in the middle of a housing crisis that has been developing for years. Canada is in a tough spot to agressively grow from immigration and many people feel like their quality of life is threatened by the economic conditions, housing crisis and healthcare crisis. It is understandable to be worried more people without the housing to support them could stress these systems further.
I agree, I wish we would target our housing crisis at the root, our outdated zoning laws. The laws only allow low density single family housing.
The ensures car dependency and adds additional cost.
Car dependancy is bleeding many cities dry. It is simply too expensive abd destructive to maintain at this scale.
Don’t forget onerous code issues have increased the cost of building a lot. Every year there’s another change that increases cost for minimal improvement in safety or efficiency. It’s like the people writing code have their raises based on how many unnecessary changes they get accepted into the rules every year.
Especially because these basic resources are required to realize the gains of increased population.
They’ve been told it’s the fault of the others, the immigrants. And they believed that.
It’s the same crew who supported the Karen Convoy of Needle-weenie Arsonists, those who flew the racist flags and blocked parliament and held up trade. Guns? Yep. Bigotry? Yep. Supported by the Conservative Party members? Yep.