So, since we can’t get rid of cars, the best choice is to make their impact on our carbon problem as lessened as possible, and the best way to do that is to stop burning things to make them move.
No. The best way possible is to calculate the various effects of differentt fuel sources and make sure we choose the best one. ACEEE’s calculations suggest that burning things (ie: Toyota Prius) remains the #2 best vehicle, only beaten by Prius Prime PHEV (partially plug-in electric + burning things).
Lighter weight, lower-polluting PHEVs can beat EVs (!!!) once we add up all the pollution events.
Therein lies your hubris. You think EVs are the best, but the math suggests otherwise. EVs can be pretty good, as long as you get a small battery pack (like Nissan Leaf) that minimizes the effects of dirty Li-ion mining, and avoid the dirtiest chemistries like NCA (Tesla has a score of 55 on ACEEE’s green-list, meaning even a full ICE/Hybrid like 2024 Accord Hybrid’s 62 rating is better than a Tesla).
A PHEV still has a battery. We’re going to be doing that mining anyway. And we’re definitely going to be using every single battery we can make. So, what’s the point of burning fuels if you can do it all with batteries, which should continue to get better over time? It doesn’t matter if EV’s are slightly less efficient than a handful of PHEVS if they’re using clean energy to charge. Once the lithium and rare earth minerals are mined they’re recyclable, and their value over time will actually make it important to do so.
And, yet again, burning fuels has to stop. We need to stop putting sequestered carbon in the air. And no, switching the globe to “renewable carbon” via biomass isn’t going to work.
Proof is in the pudding. Prius Prime, after accounting for “lifetime” emissions (which include the incredibly dirty mining process behind mining 80kW-hr worth of batteries instead of 13.6kW-hr), is far more efficient and environmentally friendly than a large number of EVs. Even EVs with small battery packs like the 40kW-hr Nissan Leaf
The issue with say, larger Tesla-like vehicles is that their battery packs are too big, too heavy, too redundant, and cause too much pollution during manufacturing. A Prius Prime has ~70% electrification in practice / 30% ICE, and the 30% ICE part is at over 50mpg. Once all the math / weight / costs / environmental effects are added up, the 800+lbs of extra Li-ion batteries from Tesla (and even smaller say ~500lb battery packs from Nissan Leaf) will easily out-pollute the miniscule amount of gasoline the Prius prime uses.
We need to re-evaluate EVs as different battery packs come out. LFP is much less pollution, but its also much less kw-hr and thus heavier per energy.
Their formula for calculating greenness drastically underestimates the impact of carbon emissions. That’s the only reason there’s a PHEV at the top of the list.
No. The best way possible is to calculate the various effects of differentt fuel sources and make sure we choose the best one. ACEEE’s calculations suggest that burning things (ie: Toyota Prius) remains the #2 best vehicle, only beaten by Prius Prime PHEV (partially plug-in electric + burning things).
Don’t hate me, hate actual math and physics. https://www.aceee.org/greener-cars
Lighter weight, lower-polluting PHEVs can beat EVs (!!!) once we add up all the pollution events.
Therein lies your hubris. You think EVs are the best, but the math suggests otherwise. EVs can be pretty good, as long as you get a small battery pack (like Nissan Leaf) that minimizes the effects of dirty Li-ion mining, and avoid the dirtiest chemistries like NCA (Tesla has a score of 55 on ACEEE’s green-list, meaning even a full ICE/Hybrid like 2024 Accord Hybrid’s 62 rating is better than a Tesla).
A PHEV still has a battery. We’re going to be doing that mining anyway. And we’re definitely going to be using every single battery we can make. So, what’s the point of burning fuels if you can do it all with batteries, which should continue to get better over time? It doesn’t matter if EV’s are slightly less efficient than a handful of PHEVS if they’re using clean energy to charge. Once the lithium and rare earth minerals are mined they’re recyclable, and their value over time will actually make it important to do so.
And, yet again, burning fuels has to stop. We need to stop putting sequestered carbon in the air. And no, switching the globe to “renewable carbon” via biomass isn’t going to work.
Yes. And a 13.6kW-hr battery (like in the Prius Prime) has 1/6th of the rare-earth metals found in the Tesla 80kW-hr batteries.
Because current battery technology is so dirty that it wipes out the gains you made from avoiding fossil fuels.
When the Silicon-Batteries and/or Sodium Batteries appear two years from now, I’ll re-evaluate. But today, PHEV is cleaner.
https://www.aceee.org/greener-cars
Proof is in the pudding. Prius Prime, after accounting for “lifetime” emissions (which include the incredibly dirty mining process behind mining 80kW-hr worth of batteries instead of 13.6kW-hr), is far more efficient and environmentally friendly than a large number of EVs. Even EVs with small battery packs like the 40kW-hr Nissan Leaf
The issue with say, larger Tesla-like vehicles is that their battery packs are too big, too heavy, too redundant, and cause too much pollution during manufacturing. A Prius Prime has ~70% electrification in practice / 30% ICE, and the 30% ICE part is at over 50mpg. Once all the math / weight / costs / environmental effects are added up, the 800+lbs of extra Li-ion batteries from Tesla (and even smaller say ~500lb battery packs from Nissan Leaf) will easily out-pollute the miniscule amount of gasoline the Prius prime uses.
We need to re-evaluate EVs as different battery packs come out. LFP is much less pollution, but its also much less kw-hr and thus heavier per energy.
Their formula for calculating greenness drastically underestimates the impact of carbon emissions. That’s the only reason there’s a PHEV at the top of the list.
With all due respect, I think I’ll take ACEEE’s word over yours with regards to the environmental costs of NOx, CO2, PM, and other pollutants.
What do you know of the funding of ACEEE?
https://www.aceee.org/aceee-ally-program
Not a single car company, if that’s what you’re going for. State of California Energy Commission is one of the bigger contributors.