Hi, I’ve been thinking for a few days whether I should learn Docker or Podman. I know that Podman is more FOSS and I like it more in theory, but maybe it’s better to start with docker, for which there is a lot more tutorials. On the other hand, maybe it’s better to straight up learn podman when I don’t know any of the two and not having to change habits later. What do you think? For context, I know how containers works in theory, I know some linux I think well, but I never actually used docker nor podman. In another words: If I want to eventually end up with Podman, is it easier to start with docker and then learn Podman, or start with Podman right away? Thanks in advance
Are you aware that all those isolation, networking, firewall etc. issues can be solved by simply learning how to write proper systemd units for your services. Start by reading this: https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/mastering-systemd
Yes I’m aware of that, having written several systemd units for my own services in the past. But you’re not likely to get any of that by default when you just install from the package manager as it’s the discussion here, and most people will just use the default systemd unit provided, and in the vast majority of cases they don’t provide the same level of isolation the default docker compose file does.
We’re talking about ease of setting things up, anything you can do in docker you can do without, it’s just a matter of how easy it is to get good standards. A similar argument to what you made would be that you can also install multiple versions of databases directly on your OS.
For example I’m 99% sure the person I replied to has this file for service:
[Unit] Description=Plex Media Server After=network.target network-online.target [Service] # In this file, set LANG and LC_ALL to en_US.UTF-8 on non-English systems to avoid mystery crashes. EnvironmentFile=/etc/conf.d/plexmediaserver ExecStart=/usr/lib/plexmediaserver/Plex\x20Media\x20Server SyslogIdentifier=plexmediaserver Type=simple User=plex Group=plex Restart=on-failure RestartSec=5 StartLimitInterval=60s StartLimitBurst=3 [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.targetSome good user isolation, but almost nothing else, and I doubt that someone who argued that installing from the package manager is easier will run
systemctl editon what he just installed to add extra security features.Can confirm, have this file. Can confirm, will not learn unit files because I don’t know enough to know the provided one is not sufficient, because the wiki has no such mention. You are spot on.
Btw I don’t mean any of that as an insult or anything of the sort, I do the same with the services I install from the package manager even though I’m aware of those security flags, what they do and how to add them.
None taken.
This is changing… Fedora is planning to enable the various systemd services hardening flags by default and so is Debian.
Yes, but at what cost? At the cost of being overly dependent on some cloud service / proprietary solution like DockerHub / Kubernetes? Remember that the alternative is packages from your Linux repository that can be easily mirrored, archived offline and whatnot.
You’re not forced to use dockerhub or kubernetes, in fact I use neither. Also if a team chooses to host their images on dockerhub that’s their choice, it’s like saying git is bad because Microsoft owns GitHub, or that installing software X from the repos is better than compiling because you need to use GitHub to get the code.
Also docker images can also be easily mirrored, archived offline etc, and they will keep working after the packages you archived stop because the base version of some library got updated.
Yet people chose to use those proprietary solutions and platforms because its easier. This is just like chrome, there are other browser, yet people go for chrome.
It’s significantly hard to archive and have funcional offline setups with Docker than it is with an APT repository. It’s like an hack not something it was designed for.
It’s definitely much easier to do that on docker than with apt packages, and docker was designed for thst. Just do a save/load, https://docs.docker.com/reference/cli/docker/image/save/ and like I mentioned before this is much more stable than saving some .deb files which will break the moment one of the dependencies gets updated.
Most people will use whatever docker compose file a project shows as default, if the project hosts the images on dockerhub that’s their choice. Plus I don’t understand what’s the problem, GitHub is also proprietary and no one cares that a project is hosted there.
What a joke.
Yes and they point the market in a direction that affects everyone.
People care and that’s why there are public alternatives such as Codeberg and the base project Gitea.
Got it, no one should use software hosted on GitHub, you’re either a teenager who just discovered Linux a couple of years ago or a FOSS fundamentalist, in any case I’ve had the personal policy of not to waste time with either for over 20 years.
I never said people shouldn’t use those platforms. What I said countless times is that while they make the life of newcomers easier they pose risks and the current state of things / general direction don’t seem very good.