I’d rather change their beliefs and actions than kill people. I haven’t given up hope yet. Rather depressing if they’re a lost cause. Have we exhausted all other tactics before threatening or using violence? Is it impossible to win without going that route? They are such a small minority, I think unity could be more effective than show of force. Probably better outcome if we spend our time overcoming apathy of the majority who typically are just trying to get by. Let’s inspire them to build a better future. Unions, for example, have won in the past against fascists with only the threat and use of work stoppage, with significant wins for everyone.
Sounds like you agree (threat of) violence isn’t the ONLY thing fascists will understand. Unions aren’t a magic wand, but there are many nonviolent responses we can use before just jumping to killing.
They’re kinda hard to avoid. They are people though, and (except for rare instances) can be deprogrammed. This is the preferred outcome. I’d rather they reform or become powerless than be killed or assaulted.
If we had infinite time I might be prone to agree with you. History says that anything other than force will fail to deter them. I’ll leave it at that.
That strategy will get you killed. They made a choice. And while we’re diddling away trying to reason with them they’ll be terrorizing and killing minorities.
When people advocate for increasing voter turnout, I have to wonder what that’s supposed to magically change about the election outcome.
Certainly, there’s the Idea that, “when people vote, Democrats win.” Even if true, that’s merely a correlation. It could be that the non-voters are mostly Democratic-leaning and need an inspiring Democratic candidate to come out and vote for; or it could be that their leanings are divided similarly to the voters’, and an inspiring Democratic candidate causes the Democratic-leaning half to come out and vote.
My feeling, though, is that it’s likely forcing the other 34% to vote would not materially change the election results, or the policy outcomes, beyond higher vote totals.
Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 and still won. The American fascist movement is speeding along just fine with genocide Joe in the white house who refuses to even call these people fascists and the justice system is completely failing to hold trump and his associates accountable for their actions. If trump wins again he promises to turn the US into an even more fascist state than it already is with the help of his fascist goons. The class traitor pigs in every city will enforce his will. Hell, even if he doesn’t win he’ll probably try to seize power.
Might be time to learn how to use a weapon and start forming armed community defense networks where you live.
Libs can bury their heads in the sand all they want thinking they can negotiate with fascists but eventually they’ll come for you too.
I’d rather change their beliefs and actions than kill people. I haven’t given up hope yet. Rather depressing if they’re a lost cause. Have we exhausted all other tactics before threatening or using violence? Is it impossible to win without going that route? They are such a small minority, I think unity could be more effective than show of force. Probably better outcome if we spend our time overcoming apathy of the majority who typically are just trying to get by. Let’s inspire them to build a better future. Unions, for example, have won in the past against fascists with only the threat and use of work stoppage, with significant wins for everyone.
A bit of a rosey view of unions, which are basically a thing of the past, and involved a tremendous amount of violence.
I think you’re being a bit optimistic, but I wish you the best. It’s good for us to use all means at our disposal.
I train, but I also vote. If someone wants you dead, you want them dead right back.
Sounds like you agree (threat of) violence isn’t the ONLY thing fascists will understand. Unions aren’t a magic wand, but there are many nonviolent responses we can use before just jumping to killing.
Have you ever talked to a fascist?
They’re kinda hard to avoid. They are people though, and (except for rare instances) can be deprogrammed. This is the preferred outcome. I’d rather they reform or become powerless than be killed or assaulted.
If we had infinite time I might be prone to agree with you. History says that anything other than force will fail to deter them. I’ll leave it at that.
I definitely think unions are critical to opposing fascism, but I don’t expect a general strike to be successful without violence from the state.
There was often violence against unions in the past. It wasn’t always met with violence in return. Neither violence, nor pacifism, guarantees victory.
All I’m saying is to expect violent resistance from the state most of the time if a strike is effective enough and large enough.
Preaching peace to the bloodthirsty is a vein but respectable act. Glad to see some people haven’t abandoned reason.
That strategy will get you killed. They made a choice. And while we’re diddling away trying to reason with them they’ll be terrorizing and killing minorities.
Only 66% of eligible voters turned out in 2020. Instead of talking about shooting people, we could be getting those folks to the polls.
When people advocate for increasing voter turnout, I have to wonder what that’s supposed to magically change about the election outcome.
Certainly, there’s the Idea that, “when people vote, Democrats win.” Even if true, that’s merely a correlation. It could be that the non-voters are mostly Democratic-leaning and need an inspiring Democratic candidate to come out and vote for; or it could be that their leanings are divided similarly to the voters’, and an inspiring Democratic candidate causes the Democratic-leaning half to come out and vote.
My feeling, though, is that it’s likely forcing the other 34% to vote would not materially change the election results, or the policy outcomes, beyond higher vote totals.
Stopping people from voting has been a Right tactic for decades.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/voting-literacy-test
“Both sides are the same” is a favorite GOP line.
Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 and still won. The American fascist movement is speeding along just fine with genocide Joe in the white house who refuses to even call these people fascists and the justice system is completely failing to hold trump and his associates accountable for their actions. If trump wins again he promises to turn the US into an even more fascist state than it already is with the help of his fascist goons. The class traitor pigs in every city will enforce his will. Hell, even if he doesn’t win he’ll probably try to seize power.
Might be time to learn how to use a weapon and start forming armed community defense networks where you live.
Libs can bury their heads in the sand all they want thinking they can negotiate with fascists but eventually they’ll come for you too.
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