What about all the chances he had to let them die or to kill them off while alone, but he actually goes out of his way to save them? You seem to be ignoring the good that he actually did do after this exchange.
So I’ll turn it around, after that event, what did he do to show that he didn’t change and would flip at any moment again? Why do you think he didn’t change after showing he was willing to accept whatever punishment they had? Even to kill him then and there?
I don’t think this one was flip like you’re saying, this is chapters and chapters long of him struggling through and redeeming himself with his choices and actions.
For Gajeel to get where he got, much, much more had to happen. The type of stuff I’m not sure Mashima knows how to write.
The only reason Vegeta sorta works for me, is that it’s handwaved off as having occurred off-screen. But even then it’s not a well done character redemption.
Both of these series aren’t the type of stories that get into that stuff, so they expedite all the self-improvement and interpersonal stuff involved… But when you do that, pairing a character like Gajeel with his literal assault victim, doesn’t work.
It’s a story about guilds fighting each other, calling it abuse is a stretch. They all did this stuff to each other, yeah a few take it further, but without that you don’t have a story/villian.
Also, you seem to accept that this and that can be glossed over, but stop at this arbitrary line? Seems weird, that’s all.
I called it assault. As in an attack. And unlike in a battle, where you fight to achieve a goal, Gajeel caused pain simply to cause pain.
The line isn’t arbitrary, you can gloss over a villain switching sides.
You cannot gloss over a villain going from this:
To this:
Without making at least some readers queasy along the way.
The level of mental trauma Levy would have suffered wouldn’t be a joke. Making a relationship even with a fully stabilized Gajeel, questionable.
Instead Mashima makes her one of the first to be understanding towards him, when her mental state should be closer to the kind where mentioning him causes a panic attack.
When things go into PTSD territory, when you get to the type of stuff that IRL causes people just drop relationships rather than figure things out, you simply can’t take things in certain directions while glossing over the steps to get there, without evoking visceral disgust in a lot of readers.
Fine. Have Gajeel switch sides and redeem him. Do not have him canonically pair off with and impregnate an underage girl he brutally tortured and crucified.
They didn’t gloss over it, there was plenty of arcs where he constantly improved himself and showed how he changed, despite your claim that never happened.
So why do you think he didn’t change? You’ve provided no examples, yet all the arcs show how it happened through his actions.
Again, with the narrative you are free to ignore and interpret the stories your own way.
I don’t remember the story to that extent. I remember being disgusted with how his character was handled.
You brought up points about the story I couldn’t recall, but even if his change was displayed, it wasn’t enough. It would never have been enough, not for where Mashima went with things. The endpoint we got should have been off-limits regardless.
Also, if I’m free to interpret things how I like, who is downvoting me?
Me since you kept arguing the same thing without addressing anything I brought up. As I said you ignored the good things he was doing, since you already thought he was passed redemption.
Which is very strange for an anime that you already said had to move fast and gloss over stuff. So why not gloss past this like everything else before you already did?
It’s a fantasy world where everyone literally beats the shit out of each other for fun, they obviously have vastly different views than you, so why would they even balk about it….? You’re projecting your own personal world view on a fantasy world… some people’s justice is literally I beat the shit out of you, we are best friends now, it’s not real fucking life lmfao, if it was a realistic manga, sure yeah you may have a point, but that’s neither here nor there.
You may be taking this a little bit too seriously if you draw arbitrary lines like you’re doing with a FANTASY media……
He is past redemption. Within what is possible in the type of story Mashima wrote, going from A (Gajeels crime) to B (His romance with Levy) cannot be done.
I’m not ignoring what you brought up. If that stuff was in there, I have nothing to refute and you’re right. But it also doesn’t matter. You have a point that his switching sides is nothing unusual, and done well, but that isn’t the specific part I have a problem with.
I said that these series gloss over some things because they are told superficially, but that also makes certain turns impossible without turning off your reader.
One such turn this series attempts and fails to make, in pairing off Gajeel and Levy.
What about all the chances he had to let them die or to kill them off while alone, but he actually goes out of his way to save them? You seem to be ignoring the good that he actually did do after this exchange.
So I’ll turn it around, after that event, what did he do to show that he didn’t change and would flip at any moment again? Why do you think he didn’t change after showing he was willing to accept whatever punishment they had? Even to kill him then and there?
I don’t think this one was flip like you’re saying, this is chapters and chapters long of him struggling through and redeeming himself with his choices and actions.
And I don’t think it’s enough.
For Gajeel to get where he got, much, much more had to happen. The type of stuff I’m not sure Mashima knows how to write.
The only reason Vegeta sorta works for me, is that it’s handwaved off as having occurred off-screen. But even then it’s not a well done character redemption.
Both of these series aren’t the type of stories that get into that stuff, so they expedite all the self-improvement and interpersonal stuff involved… But when you do that, pairing a character like Gajeel with his literal assault victim, doesn’t work.
It’s a story about guilds fighting each other, calling it abuse is a stretch. They all did this stuff to each other, yeah a few take it further, but without that you don’t have a story/villian.
Also, you seem to accept that this and that can be glossed over, but stop at this arbitrary line? Seems weird, that’s all.
I called it assault. As in an attack. And unlike in a battle, where you fight to achieve a goal, Gajeel caused pain simply to cause pain.
The line isn’t arbitrary, you can gloss over a villain switching sides.
You cannot gloss over a villain going from this:
To this:
Without making at least some readers queasy along the way.
The level of mental trauma Levy would have suffered wouldn’t be a joke. Making a relationship even with a fully stabilized Gajeel, questionable.
Instead Mashima makes her one of the first to be understanding towards him, when her mental state should be closer to the kind where mentioning him causes a panic attack.
When things go into PTSD territory, when you get to the type of stuff that IRL causes people just drop relationships rather than figure things out, you simply can’t take things in certain directions while glossing over the steps to get there, without evoking visceral disgust in a lot of readers.
Fine. Have Gajeel switch sides and redeem him. Do not have him canonically pair off with and impregnate an underage girl he brutally tortured and crucified.
They didn’t gloss over it, there was plenty of arcs where he constantly improved himself and showed how he changed, despite your claim that never happened.
So why do you think he didn’t change? You’ve provided no examples, yet all the arcs show how it happened through his actions.
Again, with the narrative you are free to ignore and interpret the stories your own way.
I don’t remember the story to that extent. I remember being disgusted with how his character was handled.
You brought up points about the story I couldn’t recall, but even if his change was displayed, it wasn’t enough. It would never have been enough, not for where Mashima went with things. The endpoint we got should have been off-limits regardless.
Also, if I’m free to interpret things how I like, who is downvoting me?
Me since you kept arguing the same thing without addressing anything I brought up. As I said you ignored the good things he was doing, since you already thought he was passed redemption.
Which is very strange for an anime that you already said had to move fast and gloss over stuff. So why not gloss past this like everything else before you already did?
Nothing you’ve said makes Gajeel starting a family with a 17-year-old he once tortured to near-death, feel right.
So no, I can’t gloss it over.
It’s a fantasy world where everyone literally beats the shit out of each other for fun, they obviously have vastly different views than you, so why would they even balk about it….? You’re projecting your own personal world view on a fantasy world… some people’s justice is literally I beat the shit out of you, we are best friends now, it’s not real fucking life lmfao, if it was a realistic manga, sure yeah you may have a point, but that’s neither here nor there.
You may be taking this a little bit too seriously if you draw arbitrary lines like you’re doing with a FANTASY media……
He is past redemption. Within what is possible in the type of story Mashima wrote, going from A (Gajeels crime) to B (His romance with Levy) cannot be done.
I’m not ignoring what you brought up. If that stuff was in there, I have nothing to refute and you’re right. But it also doesn’t matter. You have a point that his switching sides is nothing unusual, and done well, but that isn’t the specific part I have a problem with.
I said that these series gloss over some things because they are told superficially, but that also makes certain turns impossible without turning off your reader.
One such turn this series attempts and fails to make, in pairing off Gajeel and Levy.