• @ikidd
    link
    English
    368 months ago

    Russia isn’t in NATO, but they are it’s most successful recruiter.

    • @SkyezOpen
      link
      58 months ago

      Which is why I’m baffled why people still spread the myth that Russia invaded to ‘stop nato aggression.’

      Like, firstly you’re fucking wrong, but if you want to wear that L like a medal then go for it. Russia is the biggest reason the baltics joined.

      • archomrade [he/him]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        48 months ago

        I’m not sure who would say that it was to ‘stop NATO aggression’, but it’s not hard to imagine it as a some kind of response to NATO’s continued expansion around them.

        NATO hasn’t been in any direct operations against Russia but they have been involved in the ME where they have been active.

        I think of it a lot in the same way as the US’s pacific ocean and Caribbean territorial expansion and involvement in central america as a response to the Cuban Missile crisis and Soviet posturing.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          78 months ago

          I think of it a lot in the same way as the US’s pacific ocean and Caribbean territorial expansion and involvement in central america as a response to the Cuban Missile crisis and Soviet posturing.

          The “Cuban” missile crisis was started by USA putting nukes in Turkey.

          • archomrade [he/him]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            17 months ago

            Well yea, the US has had imperial ambitions since its founding, but they definitely doubled down when their primary adversary set up camp in their backyard

        • @SkyezOpen
          link
          -1
          edit-2
          8 months ago

          I’m not sure who would say that it was to ‘stop NATO aggression’

          I think the line might be “in response to” or similar, but it’s parroted by tankies and russophiles.

          NATO’s continued expansion around them.

          Can we imagine any reasons why Russia’s neighbors might want to join a defensive pact to protect against Russia? No? Oh well, must be US imperialism then.

          • archomrade [he/him]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            58 months ago

            I’m not saying there isn’t reason for those countries to want to joint an alliance against their imperialist neighbor, but honestly it’s kinda hard not to see how NATO’s influence has been abused for purposes other than defense.

            • @SkyezOpen
              link
              18 months ago

              I won’t even disagree, but that still is not a valid excuse to invade a soverign country.

              • @TokenBoomer
                link
                08 months ago

                Russia wanted to join NATO under Clinton. NATO said no because a nation has to be stable and not in a conflict to join. Russia had a conflict in Chechnya.

                (_see where I’m going _)

                Ukraine wanted to join NATO. But if Russia invaded, they can’t join.

                • @SkyezOpen
                  link
                  18 months ago

                  Yes, I know why they did it. That doesn’t make it valid.

          • @Linkerbaan
            link
            2
            edit-2
            8 months ago

            Nato: Invades the entire middle east and fucks it up to steal oil

            You: “What a great defensive alliance”

            Where those WMD’s in Iraq at?

            • @SkyezOpen
              link
              38 months ago

              You’re right. A warmonger republican president lied 20 years ago, so invading your neighbors is totally OK and any steps to prevent that are imperialism.

              • @Linkerbaan
                link
                -2
                edit-2
                8 months ago

                Especially if NATO pinky winky promises they wouldn’t expand eastward multiple times and keeps violating that promise.

                Also nice how you forget about Obama continuing it and bombing a slew of other countries such as Afghanistan.

                One only needs to look at Palestine to realize how fucked up NATO is. Willing to defend israel’s Genocide and attacking anyone that tries to stop it such as the Houthis.

                • @SkyezOpen
                  link
                  38 months ago

                  What was the name of the treaty that said nato wouldn’t expand? Oh there wasn’t one? It was just something someone MAYBE said according to gorbachev? Cool.

                  How about the Budapest memorandum? Does that have any weight?

          • @TokenBoomer
            link
            28 months ago

            Which happened first? NATO expansion, or Russian invasion?

            There’s your answer.

            • @SkyezOpen
              link
              18 months ago

              Which one was specifically disallowed by a treaty? Just curious.

                • @SkyezOpen
                  link
                  1
                  edit-2
                  8 months ago

                  Yes.

                  Edited out my snark because I mixed up replies.

                  • @TokenBoomer
                    link
                    08 months ago

                    No need to be rude. Your question was not specific. NATO knew that Russia was concerned about NATO expansion, they did it anyway. Many saw this coming:

                    Even that first stage provoked Russian opposition and anger. In her memoir, Madeleine Albright, Clinton’s secretary of state, concedes that “[Russian president Boris] Yeltsin and his countrymen were strongly opposed to enlargement, seeing it as a strategy for exploiting their vulnerability and moving Europe’s dividing line to the east, leaving them isolated.” Source

                    Per the article, “Vladimir Putin bears primary responsibility for this latest development, but Nato’s arrogant, tone‐​deaf policy toward Russia over the past quarter‐​century deserves a large share as well.”

      • @AnUnusualRelic
        link
        2
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Because that’s what Russia has been repeating for the past two years. Some people believe lies whan they’re repeated often enough.

        A major reason may have been to stop Ukraine’s entry in Nato though.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        28 months ago

        Russia is the biggest reason the baltics joined.

        The Baltic states joined in 2004. Long before Putin was made into a pariah, and Russia was still seen as part of the West and publicly aspiring to join NATO

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        1
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        I am very confused by your comment. Are you saying Putin never said that, or are you saying he was lying?

        From Putin’s actual mouth:

        ON DECISION TO LAUNCH ‘SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION’

        “We saw military infrastructure being ramped up, hundreds of military advisers working and regular deliveries of modern weapons from NATO. (The level of) danger was increasing every day. Russia preventively rebuffed the aggressor. It was necessary, timely and … right. The decision of a sovereign, strong, independent country.”

        Just to be clear, he definitely said that, but he was definitely lying.

        (source: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-speaks-victory-day-parade-moscows-red-square-2022-05-09/)

        • @SkyezOpen
          link
          18 months ago

          but he was definitely lying

          That’s my point. We know why they SAID they did it, we also know it’s not true. So why continue to parrot the Russian propaganda?