Any idea how this demand is different from the current state of Android?
Under Epic’s terms, any app downloaded from anywhere would operate identically to apps downloaded from Google Play, without Google imposing any unnecessary distribution fees.
Last time I used it, I downloaded all my apps through F-Droid, and I didn’t think they were paying Google anything?
They probably mean, for example, not having to prompt the user to allow installs from “unknown sources”, allowing alternative app stores to update apps and themselves automatically in the background like Google Play does, allow installations from alternative stores with one tap without extra user interaction, etc.
There are differences between play store and other store. For instance, on fdroid you have a pop up asking each and every time if you want to install or update the app after pressing install button. Play store you just click install and let it do its work in the background.
I don’t think fdroid can update app by itself in the background. Play store can.
I mean third party store doesn’t have access to some of the api play store have, things you don’t care but that is important to normies and that would induce reduced profit from epic store.
You don’t have that popup on NeoStore and other alternatives, because they use Android’s new APIs. F-Droid (the app) somehow gets nowhere. Still can’t export/import package sources either.
I used droid-ify recently, which is well maintained and still got these pop up. Are you sure we’re talking about the same thing ? I mean pop up that says « would you like to install x app ». Yes no. And you got to give permission to the store first to even show this pop up.
Which states it’s only for side loaded applications, not for applications downloaded through a separate app store, so this wouldn’t affect Epic
It’s also important to note that Google is only restricting sideloaded apps. If you use an alternative app distribution platform like F-Droid or the Amazon app store, you won’t run into the accessibility services restrictions
Things like screen reader access have huge potential uses by malware. Generally it should not be trivial for a program to get that level of access to everything you do.
The restriction of being limited to Google Play and not other app stores implies the implementation is part of Google Play Services, and not included in AOSP
So I was curious if that’s how it’s implemented on Android - I know Google loves moving features out of AOSP
However, things like Android-Password-Store used Accessibility services through F-Droid for autotyping back when I used it
So, trying to understand what has been locked down, since I’m planning on going back to GrapheneOS
It just takes an additional warning acknowledgement.
Google isn’t fully stopping sideloaded apps from using accessibility services, though. Once you’ve run into the dialog saying that accessibility services are restricted for the app in question, you can activate access under the app info screen in the top right corner via the “allow restricted settings” menu entry, so if you’re a power user interested in augmenting your phone with a legitimate app, you can still do that. This seems like a loophole that nefarious apps could circumvent by instructing users to enable restricted settings. Thus, it’s possible that Google will still change this behavior before going live with stable Android 13.
It’s also important to note that Google is only restricting sideloaded apps. If you use an alternative app distribution platform like F-Droid or the Amazon app store, you won’t run into the accessibility services restrictions, with Google probably reasoning that applications in app stores are screened, at least to a degree.
Any idea how this demand is different from the current state of Android?
Last time I used it, I downloaded all my apps through F-Droid, and I didn’t think they were paying Google anything?
They probably mean, for example, not having to prompt the user to allow installs from “unknown sources”, allowing alternative app stores to update apps and themselves automatically in the background like Google Play does, allow installations from alternative stores with one tap without extra user interaction, etc.
I must have had an extension at the time, but it sounds like F-Droid does automatic updates for anything Android 12+ now?
https://f-droid.org/de/2024/02/01/twif.html
I guess the nag screen can be scary, though. Good point
The nag screen is important for a bunch of less technically literate people who would otherwise install malware without thinking twice.
Or even once.
I really don’t know how to feel about it
The people it’s intended to protect will just click “yes” to anything in my experience
I don’t have a statistical analysis of results over a normal distribution of the world population, though
I feel like Epic wouldn’t be so strident about it without proof that it negatively affecting install rate.
But maybe the perception that it affects the rate is sufficient.
I think it affects install rate by design, which is bad for Epic in this case but good for security in most
I just tested it by updating something and it didn’t work, so I would say no, we don’t have background updates on F-Droid.
There are differences between play store and other store. For instance, on fdroid you have a pop up asking each and every time if you want to install or update the app after pressing install button. Play store you just click install and let it do its work in the background.
I don’t think fdroid can update app by itself in the background. Play store can.
I mean third party store doesn’t have access to some of the api play store have, things you don’t care but that is important to normies and that would induce reduced profit from epic store.
You don’t have that popup on NeoStore and other alternatives, because they use Android’s new APIs. F-Droid (the app) somehow gets nowhere. Still can’t export/import package sources either.
F-Droid has allegedly had automatic/silent installs for a while now, although only on newer versions of Android (12+).
I used droid-ify recently, which is well maintained and still got these pop up. Are you sure we’re talking about the same thing ? I mean pop up that says « would you like to install x app ». Yes no. And you got to give permission to the store first to even show this pop up.
Updates specifically, initial install still gives the pop-up.
From my recent experience both the main F-droid app and Droid-ify can do silent updates. Not sure how automatic they are though.
In addition to what atocci said, apps not downloaded from an app store by default have limitations on their access to accessibility services.
Huh. That’s a weird restriction that definitely gives credence to their case
Are accessibility services only part of Google Play and not AOSP…?
Edit: FalseMyrmidon pointed out an article about the restriction below
https://www.androidpolice.com/android-13-blocks-accessibility-services-sideloaded-apps/
Which states it’s only for side loaded applications, not for applications downloaded through a separate app store, so this wouldn’t affect Epic
Things like screen reader access have huge potential uses by malware. Generally it should not be trivial for a program to get that level of access to everything you do.
The restriction of being limited to Google Play and not other app stores implies the implementation is part of Google Play Services, and not included in AOSP
So I was curious if that’s how it’s implemented on Android - I know Google loves moving features out of AOSP
However, things like Android-Password-Store used Accessibility services through F-Droid for autotyping back when I used it
So, trying to understand what has been locked down, since I’m planning on going back to GrapheneOS
https://www.androidpolice.com/android-13-blocks-accessibility-services-sideloaded-apps/
It just takes an additional warning acknowledgement.
Thanks!
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