If you only compare democrats to republicans, every Democrat is going to look amazing.
Like comparing a large McDonalds combo meal to a literal shit sandwich.
I’ll always take some Mickey D’s in that choice. Even though it’s probably been a decade since I’ve actually ate that trash.
But if those are my only two options for every meal, I know on a long enough timeline the McDonald’s is going to kill me. Eventually I got to start asking why my only options are something bad for me and something that’s drastically worse for me.
I just want a fucking salad for once. Like, let’s just give it a chance, see how it works out.
Excellent. Changing the electoral system and changing the FPTP ranking is going to take a lot of work, but that’s the way to go!
Until then though, we got the McDonalds (now with 30% less plastic!), or the shit sandwich which wasn’t refrigerated properly. So. Make your choice. Oh and If we could maybe not kill the planet, like, real soon that’d be swell.
If McD’s knows you’ll always buy whatever they put out because you essentially have no choice, why would they EVER want to implement something like eliminating FPTP voting that locks you into this ridiculous choice?
You act like the only two parties America has had is D and R…
And that the parties are the important part not the voters.
Before we’re able to kick all the neoliberals at of the dem party and beat back republicans to have the numbers to really change our political system, we’ll see the parties shake up. Marc Cuban has been getting his name out there for four years. He’s coming in 2028. And regardless of who wins 2024, the majority of Americans will be upset about it and there won’t be an incumbent.
“Beating the system from within” doesn’t mean just using the two existing parties, it means using the party system to replace the FPTP.
You act like the only two parties America has had is D and R…
It is the case, because the Constitution says whoever gets the most votes wins, i.e. First Past The Post (and yes the electoral college screwed with that immediately).
Okay, as an old I gotta tell you - you’re right, but you’re wrong. A third party win is a pipe dream that is never going to happen BECAUSE you’ll never get a third party to outvote one of the two existing. Unless the mutated GQP does something even more upsetting and unfortunate, I guess. You might get a third nazi party that outvotes “moderates”, that’s possible I guess. National Socialists. Ugh.
But getting a more progressive, liberal party to peel away enough Democrats AND Republicans to win a federal election in order to change the voting structure - I mean, just wish for a pot of gold, or a new washer & dryer combo. Work towards it, of course - vote towards it, yes. But pining for it and pretending it’s a viable option is going to waste decades of your political interested life for nothing. Ask everyone else who has been doing that since the 1800s. (no I’m not that old, but national politics are.)
It’s because if too many people ask for salads without enough asking for a salad, then everyone has to eat the shit.
So are you confident enough that enough people want salads to risk eating shit if you’re wrong, when the alternative is one more burger?
Point being, we need to move to some type of ranked choice voting instead of first past the post in order for it to be safe for people to say what they really want, and still not risk “horror” if not enough people agree.
What and you think that’s just gonna happen? Why would the Dems ever want to implement ranked choice voting when FPTP is exactly what keeps you in this ridiculous situation?
Just keep voting for Dems, that’s how we’ll eventually reform the system into one where we don’t have to vote for Dems… Yeah
Wow, look at all those rebuttals to all those things I never said!
I’ll definitely myopically ignore the realities of our political system and do something vaguely cathartic but ultimately pointless and let the people I entirely disagree with win to spite the people I only kind of agree with.
Politicians want to get elected, and they don’t really care about the party. If supporting a popular initiative that hurts the party later helps you, you coincidentally agree with it, and on paper it aligns with your party ideals, why wouldn’t you vote in favor of it?
It’s one of those game theory situations where each individual operating in their own interests creates a situation that’s worse for the collective.
Sounds fuckin great; if you know how to navigate in the direction of the salad please let me know
I used to say voting in the party from the ground up. But that hasn’t worked and the more we try the more the parties fight it.
The 2020 DNC “fund” changes is even worse than Citizen’s united, but no one ever mentions that.
The DNC outright says if they don’t like a primary they can ignore the results. And they’re already taking delegates from states.
But it’s a different age now, debates rarely even get held and haven’t mattered for decades. Which was the big thing that used to hold third parties back: access to debates and tv interviews. The parties are nothing more than agents at the end of the day. Just middle men who hand money between people and keep some while enjoying the high life.
What matters now is internet exposure and buzz.
For good candidates that can be almost free, for shit candidates that can cost over a billion dollars even against someone as hated as trump. And Bernie showed us that even with small donors, you can run a pretty big campaign.
A third party president only takes getting people on the same page.
Political change is rarely slow and gradual, shit happens quick, even though the people who were in power always says change will take forever right up till it happens
Disclaimer- I know about the Dixie Flip and how the parties are not what they were a hundred years ago. However you said every Democrat. I am legally obligated to mention this.
If you only compare democrats to republicans, every Democrat is going to look amazing.
Like comparing a large McDonalds combo meal to a literal shit sandwich.
I’ll always take some Mickey D’s in that choice. Even though it’s probably been a decade since I’ve actually ate that trash.
But if those are my only two options for every meal, I know on a long enough timeline the McDonald’s is going to kill me. Eventually I got to start asking why my only options are something bad for me and something that’s drastically worse for me.
I just want a fucking salad for once. Like, let’s just give it a chance, see how it works out.
Excellent. Changing the electoral system and changing the FPTP ranking is going to take a lot of work, but that’s the way to go!
Until then though, we got the McDonalds (now with 30% less plastic!), or the shit sandwich which wasn’t refrigerated properly. So. Make your choice. Oh and If we could maybe not kill the planet, like, real soon that’d be swell.
If McD’s knows you’ll always buy whatever they put out because you essentially have no choice, why would they EVER want to implement something like eliminating FPTP voting that locks you into this ridiculous choice?
You act like the only two parties America has had is D and R…
And that the parties are the important part not the voters.
Before we’re able to kick all the neoliberals at of the dem party and beat back republicans to have the numbers to really change our political system, we’ll see the parties shake up. Marc Cuban has been getting his name out there for four years. He’s coming in 2028. And regardless of who wins 2024, the majority of Americans will be upset about it and there won’t be an incumbent.
“Beating the system from within” doesn’t mean just using the two existing parties, it means using the party system to replace the FPTP.
It is the case, because the Constitution says whoever gets the most votes wins, i.e. First Past The Post (and yes the electoral college screwed with that immediately).
Okay, as an old I gotta tell you - you’re right, but you’re wrong. A third party win is a pipe dream that is never going to happen BECAUSE you’ll never get a third party to outvote one of the two existing. Unless the mutated GQP does something even more upsetting and unfortunate, I guess. You might get a third nazi party that outvotes “moderates”, that’s possible I guess. National Socialists. Ugh.
But getting a more progressive, liberal party to peel away enough Democrats AND Republicans to win a federal election in order to change the voting structure - I mean, just wish for a pot of gold, or a new washer & dryer combo. Work towards it, of course - vote towards it, yes. But pining for it and pretending it’s a viable option is going to waste decades of your political interested life for nothing. Ask everyone else who has been doing that since the 1800s. (no I’m not that old, but national politics are.)
It’s because if too many people ask for salads without enough asking for a salad, then everyone has to eat the shit.
So are you confident enough that enough people want salads to risk eating shit if you’re wrong, when the alternative is one more burger?
Point being, we need to move to some type of ranked choice voting instead of first past the post in order for it to be safe for people to say what they really want, and still not risk “horror” if not enough people agree.
What and you think that’s just gonna happen? Why would the Dems ever want to implement ranked choice voting when FPTP is exactly what keeps you in this ridiculous situation?
Just keep voting for Dems, that’s how we’ll eventually reform the system into one where we don’t have to vote for Dems… Yeah
Wow, look at all those rebuttals to all those things I never said!
I’ll definitely myopically ignore the realities of our political system and do something vaguely cathartic but ultimately pointless and let the people I entirely disagree with win to spite the people I only kind of agree with.
Not sarcastically, you’re forgetting that the parties are ultimately made of people who are elected by people.
Democratic politicians tend to be Democrats, and Democrats tend to be more positive towards electoral representation.
That’s why places are actually adopting ranked choice systems, albeit usually at more local levels where it’s easier to change systems and politicians.
https://fairvote.org/our-reforms/ranked-choice-voting-information/#where-is-ranked-choice-voting-used
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/13/1214199019/ranked-choice-voting-explainer
Politicians want to get elected, and they don’t really care about the party. If supporting a popular initiative that hurts the party later helps you, you coincidentally agree with it, and on paper it aligns with your party ideals, why wouldn’t you vote in favor of it?
It’s one of those game theory situations where each individual operating in their own interests creates a situation that’s worse for the collective.
It sounds like someone’s ordering shit for dinner
They’re also ordering shit for the rest of us too.
Sounds fuckin great; if you know how to navigate in the direction of the salad please let me know.
In the meantime I do think it makes sense to request the burger instead of telling the waiter to just bring whatever
No don’t worry, THIS time when we eat shit it will TOTALLY encourage everyone to agree to not eating shit next time!
Unlike, you know, the last 20 or so times this happened.
I dunno, I think the establishment burgercrats need a 9-0 against voting rights for non-property owners to really learn their lesson!
I used to say voting in the party from the ground up. But that hasn’t worked and the more we try the more the parties fight it.
The 2020 DNC “fund” changes is even worse than Citizen’s united, but no one ever mentions that.
The DNC outright says if they don’t like a primary they can ignore the results. And they’re already taking delegates from states.
But it’s a different age now, debates rarely even get held and haven’t mattered for decades. Which was the big thing that used to hold third parties back: access to debates and tv interviews. The parties are nothing more than agents at the end of the day. Just middle men who hand money between people and keep some while enjoying the high life.
What matters now is internet exposure and buzz.
For good candidates that can be almost free, for shit candidates that can cost over a billion dollars even against someone as hated as trump. And Bernie showed us that even with small donors, you can run a pretty big campaign.
A third party president only takes getting people on the same page.
Political change is rarely slow and gradual, shit happens quick, even though the people who were in power always says change will take forever right up till it happens
Disclaimer- I know about the Dixie Flip and how the parties are not what they were a hundred years ago. However you said every Democrat. I am legally obligated to mention this.
Abraham Lincoln.
Don’t forget Rough-Ridin’ Trust-Bustin’ National-Parks-foundin’ Teddy “Bull Moose” Roosevelt