• @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    337 months ago

    This highlights an issue with trains. Why are building robot trucks cheaper than getting competition in the rail market?

    (Roads are largely free to use and public, versus near monopolies on rail track use.)

    • @AA5B
      link
      157 months ago

      Roads go everywhere you want to go, and it’s worth sending a truck for a much smaller load than a train

      • Flying Squid
        link
        257 months ago

        This isn’t about last mile trucking though, this is about long-haul trucking.

        That said, considering trains are getting longer and longer and with fewer and fewer employees on board, I’m not sure that even more freight by rail is a good solution either.

        • Matt
          link
          fedilink
          English
          117 months ago

          The rail industry would be much better off being better regulated and with large rail companies broken up.

          • Flying Squid
            link
            6
            edit-2
            7 months ago

            Definitely, but even then, we have a huge amount of freight going on our railroads. I live in a town that’s a major cross-point for multiple railroads. Traffic is held up constantly by super long trains going through. Kids are late for school, people are late for work, people miss doctor’s appointments and, worse, ambulances have to take circuitous routes to the couple of overpasses they can use to get around them. And then there are the times where a train breaks down just outside of town and cuts off one side of town from the other for hours except for those two overpasses.

            I don’t know what the solution is there.

            • Matt
              link
              fedilink
              English
              87 months ago

              The issue is with how we prioritize rail. When grade crossings are installed, they are the least path of resistance, but also are the biggest obstacle in planning. If we really want to see better rail, we need to pay for the infrastructure (ie, elevated crossings). That’s not to say every route needs the best infrastructure, but at least the busiest.

              • @grue
                link
                English
                87 months ago

                The other issue is how 150 years ago we gave railroads incredible handouts of land ownership, not just in terms of the amount of land, but also in terms of the type of ownership. In a lot of cases, railroads have more sovereignty over their land than do the local and state jurisdictions it runs through. If you’re a city trying to improve a railroad crossing and the railroad doesn’t feel like cooperating, you’re just fucked with zero recourse.

            • HobbitFoot
              link
              fedilink
              English
              37 months ago

              The solution is to make freight rail companies run on timetables again with shorter trains.

              • Flying Squid
                link
                17 months ago

                Would shorter trains be able to make up for the lack of cargo in trucks?

                • HobbitFoot
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  47 months ago

                  You need to run more trains, but a schedule will make it easier to hire qualified people to do so.

                  A lot of what has made current freight rail shitty in the USA is that a lot of freight rail companies seem hyper fixated on only the most profitable routes at the exclusion of everything else. This has caused freight rail companies to adopt some really terrible labor practices, which has led to labor shortages.

                  • Flying Squid
                    link
                    17 months ago

                    But how many trains is more trains? Because you’re talking about enough trains to make up for the loss of thousands upon thousands of trucks from the road. That sounds a hell of a lot more than, say, one train an hour. In fact, it sounds like people would be held up at crossings constantly.

        • Nougat
          link
          fedilink
          27 months ago

          While it may be more efficient (in time, energy, labor) to have something make most of its long haul journey on a train, I have to think that the time between “I need to send this” and “it is moving” is much shorter with trucking than with trains.

        • @AA5B
          link
          17 months ago

          There’s also an article somewhere around here about an attempted renaissance in shipping. They headlined the Great Lakes, but included that Chicago could be a hub connecting the Great Lakes to the Mississippi River system- together those cover a huge portion of the US

          • Flying Squid
            link
            07 months ago

            Might not be the best idea either considering the Mississippi was so low in 2022 that barges got grounded.

      • @grue
        link
        English
        107 months ago

        Roads go anywhere you build them.

        Rails go anywhere you build them.

        • bluGill
          link
          fedilink
          47 months ago

          Roads are a lot more flexible though. Tractors also use roads for example. As to bicycles and pedestrians.

          Note that the above is about very rural areas where seeing 4 of the above per hour on any stretch is busy. As you start scaling up density it makes sense to separate uses, and trains quickly become the best option for various reasons.

    • HobbitFoot
      link
      fedilink
      English
      107 months ago

      The best option is what Europe has been trying to do by decoupling track ownership from companies running the trains. However, that would likely mean a government takeover of all tracks.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        47 months ago

        It’s weird to me that a company can own a train line which cuts though the country and needs maintenance. Like imagine if they owned roads…

        • HobbitFoot
          link
          fedilink
          English
          27 months ago

          Like imagine if they owned roads…

          Oh, that’s been happening in some parts of the world. Well, at least highways.