Debunking The “Dirty” Solar Panels And Battery Myth::Solar panels and residential storage batteries are accused of having huge amounts of embedded carbon. The truth is quite the opposite.

  • @TheWonderfool
    link
    English
    671 year ago

    Nice article.

    I feel though that, as many others, it compares the carbon footprint of production (panels and batteries) vs the footprint of burning only. By looking at the source of the carbon footprint, it seems that they take into account only the CO2 output of the energy factories, but extraction, transportation and storage has a non-negligible carbon footprint.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      621 year ago

      Most of those comparisons are done in bad faith. As you said, they compare the whole chain for renewables/electric cars/windmills (parts of that chain could be decarbonised down the line anyway) to just the burning of the fuel, forgetting about extraction, exploration, transport and refining. Before you even get to the stage where you’re burning fuel in your engine, there’s been multiples of the CO2 and other greenhouse gases emitted already.

    • Tar_Alcaran
      link
      fedilink
      English
      251 year ago

      And they’re pretty big differences. Burning a cubic meter of natural gas produces 1.7kg of co2, but producing and transporting it adds another 0.3kg to that. (In the Netherlands, at least, ymmv).

      For something like gasoline or diesel, co2 emissions from well to tank is something like a quarter of all emission.

    • @psud
      link
      English
      61 year ago

      They steel-manned the argument. They ignored the setup and supply of fossil fuels, while counting those for solar and battery, and even with giving the advantage to fossil fuels they showed solar and batteries both much better than fossil fuels

  • @bassomitron
    link
    English
    201 year ago

    Mining/extraction of lithium is extremely destructive to the environment. This article gives a general overview of our predicament with having such a strong dependency on lithium for batteries: https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2023/01/18/the-paradox-of-lithium/

    https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2021/06/09/stop-calling-green-energy-clean/ goes into more depth with how much pollution mining/extracting lithium generates.

    I don’t see it discussed nearly enough that finding an alternative to lithium should be among the top priorities in research.

      • @Aarrodri
        link
        English
        51 year ago

        Advice to be skeptic about this guy. He has been caught multiple times with misinformation spreading, poorly done research, and corporate propaganda.

      • @bassomitron
        link
        English
        21 year ago

        I was tracking that sodium-ion was only viable for larger applications (e.g. building backup, possibly EVs the size of buses), is that no longer the case?

    • @Adalast
      link
      English
      91 year ago

      https://youtube.com/@UndecidedMF

      This guy does a ton of videos on battery technology that is prepping for the market. One of the biggest things he mentions in every battery video is that we need to stop looking for a silver bullet and that all of the technologies have their place. Flow batteries are amazing for industrial/grid-scale storage, lithium-ion is good for small consumer electronics, and betavoltaics could be used for low-power sensors that are becoming quite prevalent. It is going to be a challenge of figuring out the right answer for a given class of situations, not one of finding the best battery.

      • @bassomitron
        link
        English
        21 year ago

        Nice, I’ll check out his channel!

      • @Duamerthrax
        link
        English
        11 year ago

        I’m surprised I never hear about Nickel–iron batteries for solar storage in pop media. Long life span, common metals, wide temperature ranges. Seems perfect for household/small industrial storage, but instead, people are strapping Musk’s lithium bombs to the sides of their garages.

        • @Adalast
          link
          English
          21 year ago

          Check out the channel I mentioned, I think he has several NiFe battery videos.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          11 year ago

          In small scale old truck/semi batteries are pretty good energy storage solution. Not good enough for round the year use in transportation, but quite usefull in small scale energy storage. (I have a set of 10 attached to solar panels at summer cottage. Enough to run 12V lighting, fridge, fans and tv through the (short) night).

          • @Duamerthrax
            link
            English
            11 year ago

            Are you talking the lead acid starter batteries? Sure, you can repurpose those for offgrid storage, but I’m talking ongrid, industrial scale.

    • @ArdMacha
      link
      English
      61 year ago

      They found it, sodium

    • @cley_faye
      link
      English
      31 year ago

      People are looking for alternative to lithium batteries. Unfortunately the world does not stop while we’re looking.

    • @psud
      link
      English
      31 year ago

      The article focuses entirely on the CO2 spent, and uses a pretty high number for batteries, taking nearly a year of daily use and clean charging to offset versus gas

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      01 year ago

      I don’t see it discussed nearly enough that finding an alternative to lithium should be among the top priorities in research.

      Like the Italian startup with their massive CO2 battery? It was reported a year ago.

  • @Lord_ToRA
    link
    English
    6
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    deleted by creator

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    31 year ago

    I would certainly love to see a floatglass, aluminium and silicon production facility powered by renewable electricity only. And the previous steps in the production supply chain.

    The problem with renewables aren’t that they are dirty. It’s that they’re not self sustainable, while we’re running out of fossils and minerals.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    -161 year ago

    What is the carbon footprint of me covering my roast chicken in fucking aluminum foil and then throwing the foil away because it has grease on it and can no longer be recycled

    • @pozbo
      link
      English
      12
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      has grease on it and can no longer be recycled

      You’re thinking of cardboard. They melt Al scraps down at like 1300°c and any organics burn off or are removed as slag. So go ahead and chuck your greasy tinfoil in the recycle bin.

      • @Blue_Morpho
        link
        English
        71 year ago

        Like the OP, my county changed it’s rule and said do not put aluminum foil in recycling if it has any food residue on it.

        Check your county recycling. You might be surprised what has changed.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          -11 year ago

          Ok fine, I roast the chicken on 350 for 45 minutes then 425 for 45 minutes then if I am feeling fancy put tin foil on the roasting pot and cover for 15 minutes, but usually I skip the tin foil and throw in already cooked potatoes carrots garlic onions etc

    • that guy
      link
      English
      31 year ago

      Use a baster like a master

      • @Blue_Morpho
        link
        English
        11 year ago

        Alton Brown debunked basting decades ago.

    • @Zoboomafoo
      link
      English
      21 year ago

      Only if the grease is super baked on, I don’t know how you roast your chickens but when I do the foil is fine to recycle

      • @Blue_Morpho
        link
        English
        31 year ago

        Check your county recycling for updates. My county recently changed to don’t recycle aluminum foil if it touched food.

        Doesn’t make sense to me but that’s their new rule.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      11 year ago

      Of course it’s possible recycle aluminum covered in grease. It has to be cleaned before recycling though. Incineration is often used for getting rid of the plastic layer in soda cans and it’s possible to use the same method for fat too.

    • @SuperIce
      link
      English
      11 year ago

      deleted by creator