the most egregious example I can think of is antiwork in reddit. Posters there love to rant against companies, but they also give good advice regarding laws in different states and is a good source to deal with micromanagers and toxic workplaces.
But it’s like they simply don’t think that reddit is making money with every post they write. It’s like they’re working for the enemy they so much despise, a large corporation.
It baffles me that people keep posting there. Is the fediverse alternative really that bad?
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It may be hard to believe for everyone here, since we made the jump. Most people just want to be where everyone else is. They get the most interaction there, from their point of view, so thats where they stay.
Also, we may be biased toward tech here. The average person probably loathes setting up new accounts and figuring out new websites.
Lemmy is largely nerdy, linux loving leftist early tech adopters. In a sense, we sit in an echo chamber until the platform becomes more widely adopted, even though it doesn’t feel that way.
Oh it’s definitely an echo chamber in every sense; there’s no doubt that opinions that tend to be popular on Lemmy are not really representative of true public opinion. The important thing is that we maintain awareness of that and never let ourselves think that what we agree upon, society at large will also agree upon. That awareness helps inoculate against some of the worst effects of an echo chamber.
It’s too late for some of the Linux Lemmys. lol
Hey! I’m a nerdy, windows hating, early tech adopter who is strongly considering switching his personal PC to Linux but has very limited time in which to do so.
Consider using the Debian version of Linux Mint if you want something user friendly that just works
Ironically I asked pretty much that question soon after joining Lemmy, see here for reference:
I do love Linux. You got me there.
It is also crucial that leftists be where the masses are in order to make whatever pushes that can be made. There can’t be class awakening if leftist aren’t there to speak-up, otherwise it is all just reactionaries and bootlickers spreading their lies.
Especially with the constant breakages. It’s still very much beta version software (and Kbin is still alpha).
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antiwork on Reddit is a joke at this point. Honestly (and I say this as a pretty staunch leftist), fox news is right about something with AntiWork, that it is for the most part a bunch of lazy people who don’t want to work.
Now that being said, before you downvote me to hell, I strongly do believe in workreform, and the new workreform communities here (and I assume on Reddit but I’m not there anymore) are much better at having a clear message of not being abused and workers rights. Antiwork may have once had that message, but now it’s drowned in “I don’t want to work at all I should be able to have everything I want for free” garbage, and it makes the entire movement look bad.
You have it backwards. Antiwork was always anti-work and was gradually rehabilitated into also including content about work reform.
not wanting to work isn’t “being lazy”, you can do all sort of stuff if you didn’t have to waste 8 hours a day for stupid corporate crap (so that others will not need to work)
That falls under the preconception that working is only working if it’s the benefit of capitalism. You can work for a better future. You can work to better yourself. You can work to spread peace and joy to the world around you. The problem is that work is tied to capitalism in social consciousness.
I agree wholeheartedly with you!
lol. Yeah well, I’d love not to work either but I also want food, a home, and to do things I enjoy, so, hear me out, in our society I trade my skills and time for money to pay for those things.
If you want to talk about tangible, actionable items like how much money, or how many hours, or anything that can actually be done, then we can have a conversation. If your standpoint is “We shouldn’t have to work” then to me that’s not an argument. Very few people want to work - but I hate to be the one to tell you this but we aren’t going to tear down 1000s of years of society in a couple of years. There’s a reason Star Trek is set centuries in the future.
The modern concept of work is relatively new, and a product of capitalism. Being anti-work is being against the modern concept of work, not labor in general.
I agree with you. I don’t want to work, but I have to so I do. That doesn’t mean I don’t dream of a time where we won’t have to work anymore [for pointless, shitty, greedy stuff]
Yeah that’s my main realization over the years. We can’t change the system just by being against it. We have to use the crappy system to change it incrementally over time.
thelazy.org agrees!
I’m going to suggest a different take. The antiworkers all work for shitty companies and hate their jobs, and they cannot imagine that anyone else out there is in a different situation. It’s unfathomable to them that some of us might work for pretty ok companies, and do work that, while it’s not as fun as recreating, brings it’s own blend of challenge and fulfillment.
I haven’t been on Reddit in a while and I completely forgot about that community. Sad to hear it’s gone down that way, is it getting botted?
“As a pretty staunch leftist I believe most anti work people are just lazy and the system can be reformed”… Lol, ok.
You’re either not as staunch a leftist as you like to tell yourself, and/or you don’t actually understand what anti-work is about…
I’m also a realist. Yes, it would be great to be post scarcity and live like they do in Star Trek. That’s not going to happen any time soon. We can work that way, bit by bit, but it’s not going to happen. Not this year, not in the next decade, not in the next century.
I fought for gay marriage rights 10 years ago, attended protests, went to town halls and talked with my senators, did the whole thing, and we’re still here talking about it now. States are still trying to roll it back, and if Roe v. Wade told us anything it’s that it’s still not done. I will be lucky if in my life I see that one single item get codified into law.
Upending the world’s entire socio-economic system? Get real, there’s no way that’s happening. Now, as I mentioned in other comments - if you have real, tangible, actionable items to work on - written down goals in order of priority - that can get done.
This is my main problem as a democrat. We get too caught up in high lofty goals and then we all get scatterbrained on what we can actually do. Take the entire BLM movement with George Floyd. There was a moment we could have all collectively said “This is what we want, we want _________”. But people couldn’t decide on one thing. They wanted the entire system changed. If they had chosen one thing, say demilitarization of police - it probably could have happened.
So I say again, as a grizzled, old, very tired democrat. Choose actionable realistic items to focus on. I don’t care what they are. Mandatory health insurance. Retirement for all. Shortened work days. Pick one, focus on that, and you can make it happen. If you keep your message as “The entire system needs to be thrown out and redone” you won’t see anything done.
The protest against George Floyd’s murder did have an explicit call to action: defund the police and diversify those funds into social work and alleviating poverty to prevent the need for crime.
“Antiwork” does not leave because that would mean additional work. It is right in the title!
antiwork is filled with people who love to bitch but hate doing anything about it. Staying on reddit because of inertia is exactly the kind of thing that represents them.
Anti-work can stay on Reddit. I’m sick of their bitching.
Yeah, antiwork was a low effort pace to cry about having to work for a living. Workreform was where all the genuine discussion about stagnating and/or shitty workplace practices.
Do you really find it that baffling that people are choosing to provide help and advice in a setting that has millions of active users rather than a setting that has some thousands?
It’s a difference in priorities. People stay on Reddit because that’s where the heat is. I hope that people go here because we understand the inherent dangers of for-profit social media. People can make their own choices.
I don’t think people actually dwell on that problem that much… or even understand the gravity of it… but, we’ll see.
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Is ‘consistent’ the critical thing here though? Or is introducing ideas to large numbers of people who could actually benefit from them?
Should all leftists just sit in a small room together and only talk among themselves to ensure that they are consistent? Or should they be going to places where there are other people and talking to them to actually spread leftist ideas among them?
They’re in the belly of the beast, some of us wanted out; there are still reachable people there, perhaps.
Lemmy is still small and it doesn’t have the crowd sourced discussion or reach that Reddit does.
Sure some people might be after the karma or attention, but it’s bad to just lump everyone together with that assumption. People have different reasons for continuing to use other platforms, and it’s not productive to throw around insults. I assume lots of Reddit users are aware of the issues, but continue to use it for other reasons. Some people may be using Lemmy / fediverse on top of Reddit.
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People may read content relevant to them to get discussion that doesn’t exist on Lemmy yet. That might include social causes, career pages, hobbies, etc.
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People might post on Reddit to reach more people. When it comes to social causes / movements, reaching people is important wherever those people might be. I extend this to other platforms too. As annoying as it might feel, a lot of regular users are primarily on Instagram, TikTok, etc. and it’s worth the effort to get the message to those people. Lots of people learn about social causes that way
For what it’s worth, you can’t get people to move to the Fediverse if they don’t learn about it
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Anyone with half a brain switched from antiwork to workreform after the moderation drama a couple of years ago. Doesn’t surprise me that the remaining members are hard to displace
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Because some people don’t infuse their political identity into everything they do
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No.
If I had to guess it would be the amount of engagement. I love Lemmy but I still use reddit for some communities that just aren’t popular here.
I’m both here and there. Both have strengths and weaknesses. Reddit, I find, is better for getting more inputs. This place lacks that (hence this question is as askable as it is) but is good for getting more engagement for one’s worth. Money isn’t everything.
Sometimes you just have to work within the system that exists and promote change from within.
The Fediverse unfortunately still has less reach.
