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[off topic]
Old joke. Cartographers find a village that lies half in Russia and half in Poland. They go to the town hall and ask the Mayor if the town would rather be Polish or Russian. “Polish!” she shouts then goes running down the street telling everyone that they are all Poles now. Everyone is dancing and singing for joy.
The mapmakers ask why everyone is so excited to be Polish.
“No more of those awful Russian winters!”
I’m Italian and can confirm. People even started actually using “standard” Italian(mostly with some remnants of their previous local languages/dialects) in everyday speech only after the inception of TV. The patriot Massimo D’Azeglio said “After making Italy, we need to make Italians”, and the (state controlled) TV did this.
EDIT: It was D’Azeglio, not Garibaldi.
This is also why the stereotypical NJ Italian-American pronunciation of things sounds so unlike Italian.
It’s not that Americans somehow turned “pasta e fagioli” into “pasta fazool”. They turned “pasta e fasule” into “pasta fazool”, which is a much smaller leap.
That quote is from D’Azeglio, not Garibaldi.
Western Europe used to be much more of a dialect continuum. Every village had their own dialect, and you could understand everyone around you.
But if you went from Castile to Paris, you’d go from hearing Spanish to hearing French. It’s just that between them, you had dozens of intermediate languages/dialects that transitioned very smoothly. It’s not like today where if you cross a border people go from speaking French to speaking Spanish.
A large part of the nation-building project in Western Europe was to force everyone in the country to learn and use some standard dialect. So very few people now speak Occitan, Picard, Burgundian, etc., and instead speak standard French.
On the one hand, it’s a shame to lose all those languages / dialects. On the other hand, the whole purpose of a language is communication, so the fewer distinct languages, the more people are able to speak with and understand each-other.
My guess is that it’s a matter of time before everyone on the planet speaks a common language, and the odds are pretty good that language will be English. Which is a bit of a shame, since it’s a pretty shitty language in many ways.
It’ll be an English-Mandarin Chinese pidgin, like in Firefly.
Maybe, but Mandarin / Chinese isn’t really used outside China. English has about 1.5 billion speakers, and over 1 billion of them speak it as a second language. Chinese has 1.1 billion speakers, but only 200 million speak it as a second language. It seems like the international langua franca is English.
Policies could change, and China could try to teach people Mandarin as part of the Belt and Roads initiative. But, right now, if you’re trying to do business in other countries or with foreigners in your country, English is the most useful language to know.
That’s not to say that future-English will necessarily be too similar to current English. I’m sure the more it spreads, the more it will change.
My personal favourite is the term lingua franca itself from when everyone (important) spoke French.
As in English is the lingua franca.
Latin for (roughly) English is the French.
A Latin term used in English to indicate French.
But really, isn’t the “Franca” part from the Frankish language used in West Germany / Northern France / Benelux? Apparently the Byzantines called all Western Europeans “Franks” and the Lingua Franca was the simplified Italian / Spanish language with many Greek, Slavic, Arabic and Turkish loan words used for trade around the Carribean. So, it’s more “English is the European Language” or maybe “English is the language to use with Europeans”.
I was hoping someone would correct me!
I knew that translating Franca as French was anachronistic but didn’t know where to start.
I’d forgotten about the Franks.
English is the European Language
There’s a Brexit joke in there somewhere.
There’s a Brexit joke in there somewhere.
Definitely, but I think the Brexiteers get a last laugh because AFAIK EU business is still done in English.
Neniu amo por Esperanto?
Hopefully with better pronunciation, it was quite grating on my latest rewatch haha
And one episode where the ship’s alarm is in Cantonese, for some reason, when they used Mandarin for every other use of Chinese in the whole show ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Great show though
They could all learn Latin instead of going this awful way.
I suppose it wouldn’t be so simple going from Paris to Antwerps or from Paris to Brest or from Paris to Strasbourg.
“we live in a society”
" A fuckin what?"
Not entirely related but the bit about the Ukrainian farmer saying he’s “Greek Orthodox” in response to questions of his nationality reminded me of something. I just started reading nationalism and culture by Rudolf Rocker. In the second chapter, rocker says that religion is the first form of institutionalized power that humans created and that institutional political power is not only structured similarly to religion, that it stems directly from it. Hence the proclivity of these two power structures to resemble, overlap, share ideas and compete with one another throughout human history. Not to say faith in itself is necessarily a form of power (he does say that, and I mostly agree with it) but the clergy around any given religion utilize that power to further their own ends, much like politicians.
I don’t have a fully formed point or thought to any of this at the moment, and it’s a very brief summary, but I figured some may find it interesting/thought provoking
Reminds me of a joke Graeber knows from his mother (written down in the book Debt):
There was a small town located along the frontier between Russia and Poland; no one was ever quite sure to which it belonged. One day an official treaty was signed and not long after, surveyors arrived to draw a border. Some villagers approached them where they had set up their equipment on a nearby hill.
“So where are we, Russia or Poland?”
“According to our calculations, your village now begins exactly thirty-seven meters into Poland.”
The villagers immediately began dancing for joy.
“Why?” the surveyors asked. “What difference does it make?”
“Don’t you know what this means?” they replied. “It means we’ll never have to endure another one of those terrible Russian winters!”
I feel the urge to clearify that this is from before nation states and it’s the Czar Empire and the imaginary town is most certainly in modern day Ukraine.
Can confirm: I was doing some genealogy, and it was surprisingly difficult to figure out whether my ancestors were German, Polish or Lithuanian. Not because I didn’t know which town they were from, but because that town changed countries so much!
Nationalism is dumb, exhibit A
Yeah, the territory of modern Ukraine has gone through some wild political whirlwinds. Actually, still going through them
i’m italian, and i can barely understand my own grandmother because she was born 30km from where i live and the dialect is completely different.
