When people say this shit, are they arguing that it’s ok to kill children?
Frankly, . Yeah. “War is war” is the phrase i have heard most often. It makes me wonder about what exactly the second invasion of Iraq looked like on the ground.
We’ve all heard stories, none of them good
I didn’t have to hear stories. I saw. Not because I was there.
My cousin took his digital camera with him. He has a BLAST showing off his photos when he got home. I’ve never been so sickened up to that point in my life.
It was a game to most of them.
Some of them went over there broken, and some came home broken. Either way it’s a tragedy
Christian evangelicals are the worst offenders. You would think that they would support Palestine on the basis that their Christian population is the oldest Christian community in the world but no. They have to support Israel because of “end time prophecies”, “Rapture/Revelations” or other bullshit.
Most of what you said would be news to Christian evangelicals. Also they wouldn’t care.
Yep. Evangelicalism was born through the teachings of the Scofield Reference (or Study) Bible. It’s a pro-Zionist narrative injected into the Christian faith. If my memory serves me right, the King James version of the Bible is the bible that intermixed with Zionism.
I live in an area where there’s Christian Arabs, they are far different than Christians from the Western world. Almost night and day differences.
It’s a sad time in America when even politicians walk by protestors calling them, “terrorists”…
that’s definitely not new in any country
So… not killing children of a certain race (that definitely isn’t Jewish) is antisemitism? How the fuck do these two things line up? They really shouldn’t.
They’re CHILDREN, not parasites.
Nuance is absolutely fucking dead on Lemmy. There is so much disgusting antisemitism sprinkled across the righteous protestors. The way the police handle the protests is horrible. Both can be true at the same time.
do you have documented examples
Not the OP, but of course there are SOME people in the group who will be anti-jewish, but it’s all a question of percentages. If it’s 1%, then who the fuck cares? If it’s 50% then it’s a big deal. I’m sure it’s somewhere in between. From what I saw, the vast majority of protestors were not anti-jewish even if they were anti-Israel, however the new media quickly smeared the two together to waaay to many of their statements. It was really disappointing to see that message on so many different platforms.
I don’t live in the US. In Germany, we have attacks on synagogues and shit ever since the war started.
I only follow the US discourse online and it’s riddled with shit like “Isn’treal” and from the river to the sea.
Israels reaction to the Hamas attack is disgusting, solves absolutely nothing and kills tens of thousands innocent civilians. That gives me no right however to demand Israel to be destroyed or even to attack Jewish people in general.
I can’t speak on what’s going on in Germany but “Isn’treal” is about Israel being a European settler-colonial state and “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” just means that the nation of Palestine should be free from the colonial boot it has been crushed under since the start of the Nakba. Dissolution of a regime does not necessitate destruction of its citizenry
$100 says they do not have a single shred of tangible evidence, just their feelies.
We must kill all tbf
I’ve been dying for people to wake up to the fact that trolls are going around dressing up their words too sound reasonable while they’re actually attacking others.
Since both sides have killed people, and are still killing people. I cannot take up cause with either side. I hope people understand.
Hamas is evil. But who have the Palestinian children been killing?
Of the 35,000 official deaths (the real number is likely much, much higher), 25,000 have been positively identified as innocents - 15,000 of which were children.
More than 50% of all homes in Gaza have been destroyed.
Hospitals, schools, and refugee camps have been intentionally targeted.
International food and water are being withheld while aid workers, UN personnel, and jornalists are being targeted.
There’s no way to justify this as an appropriate response to Hamas.
Both sides have killed children. Hamas is not innocent. They took hostages. Some of those hostages were children. They abused, raped, and even killed their hostages. In response, Israel has struck Palestinians; Hamas and non-Hamas, killing men, women, and children. Both sides are killing people, instead of taking their families and leaving the area. No one should have Gaza. Neither side deserves it. I refuse to support either side. I would only support a movement by the UN to relocate families as asylum seekers, in an effort to remove the children from the war. No one else deserves sympathy in this but the children. That’s my opinion. You don’t need to agree with it, but I can’t support someone who says they support one side, or the other, after all of the killings. It would be like cheering on a prison yard fight between two convicted murderers and trying to convince some bystander that either one is the lesser evil. I’m not buying a ticket to this event. I don’t want to watch. Neither side is a hero.
This argument might be valid, except both sides are not equal. One side has more power than the other. Palestine is under occupation.
Then you would have been against the ANC in South Africa. The ANC was oppressed and used violence against their oppressors. Then you would have been against Civil Rights in America. The Civil Rights movement used violence against their oppressors in America.
Palestinians have an internationally recognized “right to resist” colonial occupation.
Fuck Hamas. They lied about giving up violence to get elected into power, then used violence to remain in power and refuse to hold future elections.
Also - the government of Israel is committing at least 3 of the 5 categories of genocide as defined by the Holocaust Museum.
Opposing Israel’s objectively-worse behavior is not the same as supporting Hamas.
I think you misunderstand my point. I am not failing to oppose Israel. I oppose BOTH sides of this conflict.
I believe the part that your point is missing is that Hamas and Palestine are two distinct groups. I’m sure there’s some overlap, but Palestinians are not Hamas simply by virtue of being born Palestinian.
They are generally innocent victims in a war being waged against them by Israel. Hamas is fighting Israel, so I don’t doubt that many Palestinians see them as the only way to fight back, but this is the result of decades of oppression against Palestinians
I don’t support Hamas’ methods either, but I still support the people of Palestine over the senseless attacks Israel is engaging in
You must be a troll. Are you really not able to say “quit killing innocents?” That goes for both sides BTW. “Quit killing children, quit killing innocent people.” Is that really hard? Protesting the people who are actively killing children and innocents using American made bombs seems pretty straightforward. Don’t kill innocent people. Don’t commit genocide.
Did you not read my comment? My comment was specifically against both sides because they are killing people, such as innocent children. I don’t need to go cause riot in an American city over it. America isn’t Israel or Palestine. Our civilians and our law enforcement shouldn’t be inconvenienced by huge demonstrations that should really be happening in Gaza. The place to protest against something would be in the place where the offensive action is occurring. Biden already announced he is pulling aide from Israel. Biden already sent food to the Palestinians. What more do you want from Americans by protesting? Do you want us all to fight a war against two countries that are not governed by America? You want America to jump right in to battle; to sacrifice lives of American service people? You want us to police an issue that doesn’t directly involve America. Then everyone will be protesting it as if it’s the Vietnam War. I don’t think we need to be encouraging Americans to pick a side.
I think other countries could offer plane tickets and sanctuary guarantees to families who want to escape, while making sure to send Israelis and Palestinians to different countries for that sanctuary. They could encourage a mass relocation of civilians. Gaza should just be evacuated entirely and no one should live there ever again. People will disagree with me. That’s fine. It’s better than saying, “let’s send them bombs and jets!”
Doesn’t really seem like the folks holding signs and protesting are being arrested. The people who have set up encampments and are trespassing are being arrested, but they’re clearly and obviously breaking the law. Peaceful protest is protected, vandalism, and attacking students or blocking them from accessing the buildings they’re paying tuition to use isn’t peaceful protest. There’s a hell of a lot of video showing that quite a number of these are not peaceful or protests. Signs calling for intifada are not peaceful.
Man it’s a good thing the founding fathers didn’t engage in any vandalism and only peacefully protested until the crown let them become independent.
If you’re trying to equate or conflate the plight of the founding fathers with the plight of a peoples who hold near absolute domination over the entire region with 22 ethnostates, then you need to go back to history class.
This isn’t a fight for freedom in any way, shape or form. It’s a fight to eliminate the only state that isn’t Muslim in the region.
The United Nations disagrees with you. Are they Hamas now?
I’m assuming you’ve gone far out of your way to avoid the video that was released on Saturday showing Hamas using un vehicles.
I’m pretty safe in batting that you’ve also managed to avoid the fact that Hamas was having their power provided by a un agency as well.
Those are both incontrovertible facts with clear video evidence. I’ll let you come to a conclusion on whether or not the UN is Hamas or not, but they are certainly making it very difficult to differentiate themselves.
incontrovertible facts
Then please provide said facts.
Edit: A UN-commissioned review found Israel had failed to provide evidence to back up the claim.
The United Nations 🇺🇳 is Hamas now, good luck with that.
Yes we have investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong. Ignore the video evidence that it’s coming out daily and weekly. Ignore the little infrastructure tied into our power grid. Ignore all of that. None of that actually matters here. Only what we say when we are investigating our own doing…
That’s to find out part after fucking around LOL.
You’re not going to lock people out of campus. Take away the right to access the facilities they’ve paid for and not expect pushback. Super easy way to avoid. This is to not set up illegal encampments in the first place.
Yet again here we have people crying victim over the consequences of their actions. Completely typical among the Anti Jew crowd.
Yet again here we have people crying victim over the consequences of their actions. Completely typical among the Anti Jew crowd.
Not like you though, right?
Completely typical of the Zionist crowd. Gotta play the victim as they murder thousands.
It’s not murder. It’s a war. What happened on October 7th? On the other hand, was murder. The retribution for starting the war is a war in return. The consequences of starting a war are typically identified by a body count. Don’t want none. Don’t start none.
That you failed to understand this, is your failure and demonstrates a serious bias and lack of understanding.
“It’s not murder”
Do you know that war has a definition? Part of that definition, by international agreement and law is to not target civilians, especially children.
It’s considered a war crime. Israel is clearly and provably guilty of war crimes.
Yeah that’s great. Israel has clearly established that they are not targeting women and children. They’ve dropped leaflets. They’ve made phone calls. They’ve even put idf soldiers at risk having to escort people away from Hamas snipers who are targeting people trying to leave.
Your anger is directed at the wrong people. It needs to be directed at Hamas openly uses human Shields, operates out of civilian quarters and uses what should be protected. Facilities like hospitals and schools to launch attacks from. If you’re going to sit there and say that Israel should not respond to being attacked because they’re being attacked from a hospital then I have no problem calling you in a bigot because what you’re saying in reality is that the Jews need to accept being rocketed and killed. That’s just an absurd position to take, but we’re seeing a lot of absurd people and positions related to this conflict. Like the people trying to claim that anti-zionism is an anti-Semitism. Nothing more absurd than that.
Israel has clearly established that they are not targeting women and children.
Are you nuts? There are 8000 identified children dead. So either the IDF is targeting civilians or their targeting is war-criminal level bad.
what you’re saying in reality is that the Jews need to accept being rocketed and killed
No, they don’t have to accept it. They should elect governments that don’t support apartheid and commit genocide, thus perpetuating the cycle of violence.
Do you know how Israel protested the British empire to get their attention and Palestine’s land after WWI?
They created a terrorist group to target and murder high ranking officials.
The cops literally did more damage than the protestors, you can go ahead and drop that propaganda line from your repetoire. We all saw it live, there’s no one around to believe those particular lies.
That’s just bullshit dude. You’re telling me you haven’t seen the destruction in the libraries and on the campuses? Those were even published in the guardian.
That you’re attempting to gaslight this one and say that the sky isn’t blue isn’t going to fly. There’s just far too much out there proving that many, many of these campus takeovers where anything but peaceful protests.
I hope you learned your lesson on applying a nuanced point to the willfully outraged masses. It doesn’t work in this environment.
These people need to be angry. And using rationality is almost always predictably met with nonsense and bad-faith arguments.
These people don’t even know why they’re angry and they’re clearly being led around by people with an agenda they’re not aware of. We see this with the intifada guidebook being distributed, this was never a peaceful protest.
The claims of children being half of the dead being a good example of ignorance being amplified. Even the UN fell for it, they’ve admitted their mistakes - I won’t hold my breath for the protesters to do the same.
Can you give me a reliable source that the Israelis haven’t killed thousands of children?
Thanks for being an example to their point. You’re trying to create an argument. They never said thousands weren’t killed- they said HALF of the dead are not children.
Learn what context is.
I’m just asking for evidence that thousands of children weren’t killed. The fact that you seemed threatened by the question and defensive tells me a lot about you and your position. Thanks
The fact that you need to change the statement in order to even ask the question, tells me everything about your position. And, you’re not welcome.
I haven’t changed anything. I asked a question that you seem afraid to answer.
I truly believe that most of them didn’t even know that Israel and Palestine were in a conflict prior to Oct 7th, and more than most couldn’t point to Palestine on a map.
I am positive you are right.
Oh, I’m 100% certain of it. I’ll allow for the fact that there’s some outliers around that are aware of the history between the two nations, but the majority talk like they are trying too hard to appear worldly and caring. Which is what you get when you have to manufacture your own outrage.
It comes off as disingenuous.
Also, their complete lack of knowing how nuance works in these situations indicates that most of them aren’t old enough to understand how these things work- and that political discourse is a never ending series of compromise.
Pouting and threatening to not vote has… checks notes- not ONCE in history, resorted in the aforementioned pouter getting their way.
And the irony is thy think they’re not part of the status quo.
It do not be like that
It do be like that
It do be exactly like that. But your isntreal flag tells me you can’t understand that.
isntreal flag
yeah, sure, stoke the flames higher. That’s what the world needs right now.
People like you are the reason why people are suspicious of all protests. Because they’re infiltrated by People like you.
You openly support a genocidal fascist state and I’m stoking the flames? Sure Jan. Concern troll elsewhere.
It absolutely do be like that.
No, it do not. It’s just that these kids don’t understand what nuance is. And they think if someone applies it to their agenda, then they are automatically against said agenda-
Which is ironic, when that entire concept flies in the face of what nuance actually means.
Please explain the nuace necessary to justify genocide as a defensive strategy.
There’s no point. It’s been explained by myself and many others many times. And it always ends the same way.
Being accused of supporting genocide.
No one wants to listen. It’s just reactionaries outraging themselves without bothering to understand when it’s explained.
If you want I know what the nuance of the situation is, look into it yourself. You’ve educated yourself incorrectly- the onus is on you, not me to correct this.
There’s plenty of resources out there that will adequately explain what is happening there and why things are the way they are.
Look them up.
See this is how it always goes with you people.
You say there’s nuance, but when prompted for more info you just act exasperated, like it’s not important enough for you to explain yourself and say “educate yourself” but then don’t bother to provide any sources for your assertion.
I’ve educated myself incorrectly? Show me where you educated yourself.
No one ended this dialog but you.
And this is how it goes with YOU people:
You think you’re entitled to a proper response to bad faith questions you’re asking for no other purpose than to just burn it down. The real world doesn’t owe you unlimited explanations. Especially when it’s been already explained to you all time any time again.
The answers exist. It’s just not my duty to lead you to them. Especially when you have no intention to take them seriously.
Your comment history shows you have no intention to communicate in good faith. You accuse people of supporting genocide simply for disagreeing with you.
You openly support a genocidal fascist state and I’m stoking the flames? Sure Jan. Concern troll elsewhere.
This was you. In response to someone else suggesting you learn to understand the nuance in things. So maybe you can understand why there’s no way I can take you seriously when we both know you’re pretending to be genuine.
Things that never happened
https://youtu.be/QgV-BGfIbtQ?si=Ilj0elxwt-nFq314
Man if only there were some video evidence of literally that exact scenario happening.
Don’t worry, they can waive their cognitive dissonance by mentioning that’s some western fake news propaganda.
Should be any minute now.I know that video exists of anything conceivable so yeah I don’t suddenly believe that there’s some big movement of people claiming any support for Palestine is anti-Semitism. A tiny minority of people not really worth mentioning. Yes I said it “never” happened but that’s only a slight exaggeration
Man if only there were news outlets reporting on literal representatives in congress saying being pro Palestine and anti-zionist is antisemitism.
Holy shit dude, how are you this good at being explicitly and easily provably wrong?
great job, nuanced argument, 5 stars. Never have I been more wrong in my life than when I said there aren’t many people equating these protests to anti-Semitism. I mean jeez it’s gotta be like… .00001% of the population. A plague upon society! We should be screaming from the rooftops about what a couple of people believe…because… That helps sell the idea that gEnOcIdE JoE is personally murdering children. Er I mean it’s true. Yeah that’s it. It’s true . So many people believe this that it’s just a horrible danger to the world.
Keep moving that goal post buddy. You’ll get them eventually!
right I totally did that, and you are totally not coping with your extreme bias that causes you to believe you are persecuted for having an extremely popular opinion
I only bring nuance to good faith arguments, so far you’ve demonstrated that you will just make anything up and wait for us to easily refute it. So now that we’ve devolved into sophistry and meta-argumentation, I’ll leave the convo here and hope your day is as pleasant as you are.
I’ve demonstrated I’ve no patience for people who intentionally or accidentally support trump
Well said and good argument. It’s clear you knew you weren’t going to get through to these kids from the beginning, but you made your point anyway and I respect the hell out of that.
Well done man.
If the point was that he’ll just say easily disprovable lies, then sure he made his point.
But he hasn’t made any statements that aren’t easily disproven by a quick Google search. There are people who literally faked being in “danger” to get police to break up peaceful protesters, and literal lawmakers in congress who are equating support for Palestine as antisemitism.
But hey I guess not all of us can be brainteasers morons who don’t know how to use google.
