I was looking at a potential new job until it occurred to me to ask about dealing with “on-call” support.
As I work in tech, there is usually an expectation that some level of support is handled off hours in case systems go down. However this position didn’t have any compensation for making yourself available and generally only 15 mins from a phone or computer to support the systems. The best they could offer was “time in-lieu” if you get called, which is basically saying they’ll let you work your contracted maximum hours despite it being unsociable hours.
Fuck that.
After seeing elsewhere someone commenting that they would refuse to on-call if there was also a “return to office”, because if they had to go to the office to work, then how could they possibly support it from home, it made me wonder what other things should I remember to enquire about when interviewing and asking the hiring company?
They ask you to pay for something necessary for the hiring process before even confirming that you are, in-fact, hired.
Fuck that. Never spend money on something for the hiring process, thats a scam.
Except a nice new shirt for the interview, especially if you have been off work for a while since extra kilos are very stealthy until you try to button an old shirt
Maybe, but thats not them asking you to purchase anything for the interview.
Some warning words in job listings:
- “hit the ground running” : there’s no time or people to train you, you have a day to learn the whole system.
- ”we’re looking for a rock star…” : the one guy who knew how it all worked rage quit, we need someone who can do it all
- ”open to graduate engineers” : we don’t want to pay a high salary for an experienced engineer so we’ll pay you peanuts to (hopefully) do the same role.
- ”As a world leader in…” : few have heard of us before, including you
- “…fast paced environment …” : We don’t have enough people, would rather not spend the money , prepare to do three roles at once
- “work hard, and play hard” : No play just work, 16 hour days. Once every 6 months HR will plan a mandatory rock climbing event (on a Saturday)
- ”…Remote flexibility” : You can work at home one day per month if it’s snowing otherwise we need you to commute in for every 15 minute meeting
- “You will lead a multi-disciplined team…” : a collection of odds and sods who can’t communicate or get anything done. That’s why there’s an opening
- “…family oriented business…” : We’ll call you with problems any hour of the night, your scheduled vacations are subject to cancellation, if you resign we need 6 months notice, then we’ll still call you at your new job for advice.
- ”We are the innovators” : we need you to juice up our also-ran bland product line
- Any mention of onsite food or catering means they want you working while eating lunch
- ”An opportunity has arisen” : Someone said fuck this I’m out.
- If it’s a job with little contact with customers or clients and they still mention casual Fridays, avoid
- ”You should have ten years experience in Ratfuck XBumpick version 2.3 (1997 edition) and 8 years experience in Tard Tool Power Edition DOS” : We’ll consider you if understand numbered lists in Word.
- ”You enjoy new challenges every day…” : The rest of us just want to get the fuck out of here at 5 o clock and go home.
I would like to remind you that you are posting in a UK-focussed community.
Quite right. XBumpick 2.3 was only ever released in the US, after ‘the incident’ back in 1996.
“So it’s like a pyramid, but upside down”
- MLM I interviewed for.
They give you CEO? wut 🤣
lol kinda, it was a real office with 3 staff: CEO, CFO, and assistant. I was weirded out seeing all three were ~20 years old. He said I could make my own subsidiary and be my own CEO one day. I asked for the parent company name and did a quick Google when he stepped out of the room for a second. Not only saw the MLM stuff but also a culture of employee abuse and hazing in the subsidiaries. I just walked out at that point.
When they ask you for an indication of what you’d like to earn, only to then casually say “okay” to what you said and low ball you by a lot afterwards. Lady, I can’t help that you didn’t provide the salary range in advance, that’s your fault.
They all do that. They’re actually trained in how to do that. It’s some sick Prisoner’s Dilemma thing. They make you give an estimate first and then low ball from there. They don’t tell you a salary range deliberately because they know people will put themselves at the top of the range.
I’ve had it before where I’ve replied to them saying “What’s the salary range” and they’ve said “we don’t disclose that at this stage in the interview what’s your salary right now?”. The fuck. So they expect me to tell them everything and tell me nothing in return? End the interview right there.
I just lie about my salary when they ask 🤷 Can’t low ball me if I already inflated it lol
I’ve read some instructions for workers where it says the best plan is to avoid disclosing your own salary or expectations until much further down the interviews. If they’re willing to hire you already, they’re much more likely to accept your request because doing interviews costs then money.
That sounds more like HR propaganda to me. Interviews aren’t free, but they are cheap. Paying someone what they are worth, vs. low-balling someone desperate, is fiscally practical.
I’ve gotten to the point where I ask recruiters that hit me up on LinkedIn if the position has a listed salary range. If not, I usually bail right then, unless the job or company is interesting enough to have a conversation. But if they are cagey about salary or benefits, I bail. They are the only reason I’m there, so being cagey about them is a red flag.
This. Any position without a salary band, and a realistically narrow one, isn’t a real position.
This is what I’ve heard as well and I think it’s good advice. Putting it into practice is hard though. Do you just say “I prefer not to disclose that at this stage”? Or something else?
You can be vague. There are a lot of benefits, bonuses and other perks that make my current salary a little difficult to quantify at this moment.
That reminds me, I should ask what the previous person was paid before giving my current salary. That way it’s an equal exchange of information.
I no longer apply to jobs that don’t post salary because of this. It’s a lie. The salary is the low part of the range, but at least that’s something.
In this region, they must state the salary range as part of the job advert.
The day that came into force I spent just reporting dickweed companies.
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I’ve actually had the opposite of this happen to me, I gave a figure and they offered me more. But I’ve also had this happen too when they’ve gone below what I asked.
Anything involving Myers–Briggs.
I stay away from “Full stack” dev roles. Keeping a UI current with all their demands and so many dependency updates is a full time job on its own. Then on top of that I need to implement back end systems and stay on top of security? Hire two people you cheap bastards!
Full Stack has always been a scam
The main thing I ask about on-call is what the scope is and how many people are covering it.
There’s one end where they have a kid who takes calls and literally 70% of them go to you, plus you are on call every other week because there’s only three on the rota and one guy quit/is on holiday.
And then there’s the other end where there’s multiple on call teams and your team only gets called for very specific reasons, you are one of 5-6 people on the rota, on call bonus is massive plus 1.5*wage for every call out.
We had a union shop here where standing-by with a cell phone after-hours got you regular wage 1:1. Call-outs were double-pay, minimum 4 hours. Really-really.
Some things that worry me are “coding superstar” “your in a small team so must be able to do multiple roles” usually means you have to work put everything on your own without support, just i want moreeee im super wary if i hear “we’re like a family” normally means i want you to do things most companies cpuldnt ask for, like working extra hoirs without pay.
Also i usually ask “how do you find working here” if they seem excited or happy i take it as a good sign, if they look worried, angry or theyre like “it takes time getting used to” im a bit wary.
When the benefits listed are the legally required minimum holiday and pension, plus on site parking. Usually these are also paired with a competitive salary.
Edit: it’s late, I can’t read and wrote about things in a job advert rather than an interview. I’m going to bed, maybe I’ll try do some Internet tomorrow.
No, thats fine!
Red flags can be anywhere! Spread the warnings, because some things dont always sound as toxic as they really are.
If the position says you’ll be working directly with the CTO, just say no.
Micro-managing?
It usually means there is little to no dev team, and the CTO probably whipped together the existing codebase. Worst of all they will fight any attempt to change the patterns they’ve put in place.
“All customer installs need to have firewalls disabled, and the widget needs to run as domain admin”
Continues until a big enough customer puts their foot down, at which point all the installation engineers get upset because they need to do something new.
“As CTO, I am a unique and special genius with unique and special vision. You exist only to implement my unique and special vision. Expect me to document and define the unique and special vision haphazardly (sometimes literally on the back of a restaurant napkin), if at all, and that I will be hugely critical if you deviate from any of the undescribed features of my unique and special vision.”
Source: have worked directly for more than one unique and special genius.
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