Meme makes fun of people who argue about thing.
OP immediately engages in argument.
I know what I’m about.
So you argue on the internet about comics instead of working? Are you bragging? I am jealous.
I like to imagine that this is Picard Maneuver’s job, they deserve to be paid for all the content they bring to Lemmy
Honestly yes, they do
Do you guys not know that that is exactly what a Picard maneuver is? Seemingly being in two positions at once?
The Picard Maneuver was born out of desperation during the battle. The Stargazer, which was damaged, suddenly accelerated into high warp directly towards the Ferengi ship. By doing so the Stargazer appeared to ship’s sensors, for an instant, to be in two places at once.
Also, the shirt pull.
Fair enough.
Although I’d call it the Picard tug or something, perhaps. Huehue
Cool to know, I really didn’t before. Nice catch!
They’re playing both sides so they always come out on top.
Exactly.
The Picard Maneuver was born out of desperation during the battle. The Stargazer, which was damaged, suddenly accelerated into high warp directly towards the Ferengi ship. By doing so the Stargazer appeared to ship’s sensors, for an instant, to be in two places at once.
Magneto controls the hammer in Super-Villain Team up issue #14.
Now go to bed.
Magneto hates Beast?
Thank you for this!
That kind of seems lame… I thought the hammer was protected by some magical power that required to user to be worthy.
But this would indicate it just takes strength.
Which makes it kind of silly that Hulk couldn’t move it an inch 🤔
Maybe Magneto is worthy. He is trying to save his people from discrimination after all.
Didn’t the MCU movies make a point to say it only matters if the person is worthy by Odin’s standards? I guess it just means Magneto meets Odin’s standards, whatever they are.
It is, but the patch that prevents you picking it up only applies to physically lifting it. The devs forgot about other methods of moving objects.
Call it a gray area, since he can’t pick it up with his body. Guess Odin didn’t factor that one in.
I miss this version of Donald Duck, his anger kinda made sense, he was tired, overworked and everyone around him were idiots, something I can deeply relate to.
The inspiration for Squidward?
The trope probably goes back further than that, but yes.
Yes, but it would be an effort that does not come down to any strength, machinery, physics or logic, because in his universe the Narrative Force is infintitely stronger than any natural laws.
And the hammer is ruled by a strong narrative: Thor’s storyline.
So he would have to create a compellig narrative where he moves the hammer in a way that makes an interesting Thor story.
He can’t just move it with a planet-size magnet powered by the sun itself, but he could move it with a planet-size magnet powered by the sun itself if it could be explained in a cool way and gives Thor a great struggle to overcome, causes tension to test his relationship to Odin, or moves his character arc.
The hammer is effectively immovable by sentient beings. IIRC, if Thor left it on a elevator it’d still go up and down, unless it was a magic talking one. Edit: Note sentient and living. Vision could lift it in the movie. He’s not alive so no powers though.
Magneto can move the hammer with his omega level mutant magnetism powers. He isn’t worthy though, so no Thor powers. Hulk has also moved it, with raw strength. He similarly wasn’t worthy.
Since vision is clearly sentient, couldn’t one argue that his sort of absolute sense of morality just made him worthy?
Might not be a biological life form, but defining life is hard and he clearly is sentient.
Like imagine Commander Data. I think he could be worthy to lift the hammer, if it’s about the lifter being “good”. And TNG had a lot of arguing if he’s alive or no.
We know from the movies that Stan Lee driving a truck couldn’t budge it, nor could Stark’s Iron Man glove when he was wearing it. To me that signals that inanimate objects being wielded by others can’t move it. However it was also on the floor of the S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier at one point so that could be indicative that intent is important too. Hence I’d posit that Thor could leave it on a truck without the owner knowing, and it could be driven around, or leave it on a elevator and the guy calling the elevator from the ground floor isn’t going to end out staring at wreckage.
Vision isn’t being wielded by others. One can also argue that the absence of darkness in Vision made him worthy, however, he didn’t get powers, so I feel like that rules that theory out. I think the hammer seeing Vision as both not alive along with not acting upon it as a vessel of something/someone else attempting to move it is the more logical take. Basically Vision is the aforementioned elevator in this scenario. Ground Floor, Hammers.
Or the writers could be implying something in the hammer handover scene, and poorly writing elsewhere. Take your pick really.
I think the easiest thing “plot-wise” is to endow the magical object itself with a sort of sentience. Like not as much as the Sorting Hat in HP, but to the tune of that.
I strongly feel Vision definitely is sentient, as anyone who’s seen TNG would know the arguments made for Data, and they very much apply here. If we assume the first, and there is something in the hammer that judges people, then yeah, it’s hard to explain how some can move the hammer a bit, but not gain the power, despite the wording of the spell. Cap almost moves the hammer, even making tor raise an eyebrow slightly. So perhaps there’s “degrees of worthiness”. And Vision is pretty high up there, but not “have all the power” high. Or perhaps the power just didn’t manifest at all because Vision didn’t even try to “tap into” it. Who knows, comics can explain it however they feel like.
But I would not agree that Vision is “an elevator”.
“Prove to the court I am sentient.” - Captain Picard (from “ST:TNG The Measure of a Man”)
These are fun to talk about but yeah, it does boil down to “take your pick.” Still, doesn’t mean we can’t have fun theorising.
Not as lengthy as your guys comments but a theory I’ve heard on why captain America can budge it is that he IS worthy but he doesn’t recognize that. In other words he doesn’t think he’s worthy to wield Mjolnir. It’s been a while since I watched avengers or heard the theory so I forgot the why behind it.
He similarly wasn’t worthy.
Or was he?
It would help explain Thor-Hulk vs Hulk-Thor:
What’s with handsome Thor-hair Hulk?
Good comment here. Were the immovability limitation not restricted to sentient beings, the hammer would just zoom off into space the second Thor put it down.
The obvious question there is what happens when you leave the hammer on Ego the living planet
So… If you grab it on the elevator and make the elevator go down, you effectively lift it?
Wife: “I bet he’s thinking about other women.”
Husband: “Marvel ‘nerds’ are now just normies.”
Yes, and IIRC he’s done it. But he has to use his powers to do it; he can’t just lift it with his hands.
Does that mean he is unworthy or just physically weak? 🤔
Physically weak people are unworthy.
Unless they’re battling something that makes them physically weak, like cancer.
What’s the mythical-scientific reason for Thors hammer being immovable? Very high mass/density or protected by some invisible godlike force?
In the movies, it’s a worthiness/ pure heart thing. In the comics it’s just really heavy. I guess the question is, is magic space metal ferrous enough to be magnetic?
I think Magneto can control nonferrous metals, too.
It has always bothered me that he used super strength magnetic fields to manipulate non-magnetic metals. yes, that is the thing in the xmen universe that breaks reality for me, everything else is fine
That is realistic though, he just needs to move the magnetic field to induce a current in them. He should be able to affect any conductor.
Does this mean he might also have limited water powers in regions where the ratio of metallic solids in the water is above a certain threshold? Kinda like the “metal in your blood” scene in that one X-Men movie.
I think that’s exactly what it means. Avoid entering caves with Magneto. There’s a lot of minerals dissolved in those drip drops
And if there’s one thing that we know Mjolnir definitely is, it’s a conductor
Yeah sorry but diamagnetism is a thing
Pretty much both.
Stormbreaker is completely different metal with no such restrictions placed on it, so anyone can pick it up.
After captain america picked up Mjølner, he then turned water into wine and came back to life three days after dying.
Captain America and Mjølner were in the closet making babies and I saw one of the babies and the baby looked at me!
Baby looked at you?
I just watched this episode for the first time!
Protected by a literal god but I have no idea why it wasn’t movable after oden died.
Enchantments are a one-off thingy. They don’t require the enchanter to stay alive.
Otherwise, buying an enchanted sword from someone would mean, you would have to depend upon that person not getting killed by some random robber, when you are in the middle of battling the dungeon boss.New DnD Idea just dropped.
No you don’t… Don’t apply enchanter DRM!!
Your enchanted sword refuses to turn on without the bladesmith’s proprietary Dongle of Unlocking
Your characters walk into a magic shop, but instead of buying magic items the shopkeeper offers to sell them scrolls of ownership. “There are infinite number of these scrolls,” he explains, “but they all use a decentralized mechanism to determine ownership!”
“Okay, I’ll buy one. Now where’s my +1 sword?” The fighter asks.
“The scrolls say that you own it” the shopkeeper unhelpfully reiterates. “And every other scroll will be updated to agree that you own it.”
Sounds like some artificier prestige class shit here.
It’s an Enchantment written onto the hammer by Odin.
So basically, it’s the will of the God Odin, instilled upon the hammer.
I like this because then you can say that a non-worthy person can wield the hammer, if they’re stronger than Odin and can beat the enchantment. Magneto is probably on that level.
I’d say magneto just found a gray area, since he didn’t “wield” it with his body.
could not be me in the second frame
According to the comics, Thor’s hammer only weighs 42.3 lbs. (19.1 kg). Odin’s enchantment prevents anyone who is not worthy from lifting it. It’s a question of Magneto’s purity of heart, not strength of power.
Edit: I think I found a good answer below. Even if natural forces could lift Mjølnir, the enchantment would not be in effect - getting beaned by a 40-something pound chunk of metal would still hurt, but it wouldn’t hit as hard as it does when Thor uses it.
Ah, but Magneto’s not the one lifting the hammer - he’s directing magnetic fields that are doing the lifting!So, could the wind pick up Thor’s hammer, if it were strong enough? How about changes in gravity - is Mjølnir as hard to pick up on the moon as at the surface of the Arctic ocean (Earth’s highest-gravity location, I couldn’t find coordinates)?If so, then I ask: is the magic of the hammer smart enough to know the difference between a primal force and a primal force that’s doing someone a favour?Well, it’s magic vs science. The enchantment makes it unliftable by purity of heart. If I remember right, technically Ultron and Vision could lift it.
Edit: found the comics did answer it - yes he can manipulate it using E&M fields but he wouldn’t get any of the power from it.
Odin’s enchantment isn’t infallible. What if Magneto’s mutant powers were stronger than the enchantment?
It’s Sunday morning. Plenty of time to debate this important matter.
EDIT: The answer is yes.
Magneto would be able to lift the hammer, not because his powers give him control over magnetism, but because he is worthy to!
He doesn’t physically pick up the hammer in the comics. He uses his magnetic abilities to get around the weight and worthiness issue.
Fucking cheater.
All physical touch is essentially electromagnetism
So, he just had more power than the enchantment.
GuessZeusOdin should have gotten the master enchanter to do the job properly instead of hastily whispering some words into the hammer.
Fixed it because ppl were getting confused
Zeus
Odin
Oh shit! I forgot who is who
So…Odin asked Zeus to enchant the hammer or …?
No. I just used the wrong name for Thor’s-papa
Iirc he could but he couldn’t wield the power of Thor
That actually gets around my questions above nicely. Moving Mjølnir ≠ using Mjølnir. If the hammer can be moved by natural forces, it’s just a chunk of metal - it won’t have the devastating impact it does when Thor throws it.
And I guess if Thor woke up and called the hammer back, it’d go regardless of natural forces acting on it.
Im pretty sure there have been times thors hammer has not come because something was holding it back. I don’t think the call overrides physical effects on it but it has to be able to overcome its relative power.
Ah, I didn’t know there have been things that prevented the call from working (aside from the whole fall from grace storyline). I guess that’s why I stopped reading comics. No consistency 😂
well I mean these things go on for decades and writers and artists change. its a good thing. likely going to see a lot more variation with marvel now that stan lee passed much like lucas not being part of star wars changed it.
Magneto is a mutant who can manipulate magnetic fields.
Thor is a god.If Magneto could move Thor’s hammer, anyone with a magnet could.
anyone with a magnet or forklift or such can move the hammer.
Or an elevator, if the elevator is worthy.
