• @FluffyPotato
    link
    249 months ago

    If the options are Stalin or capitalism, then capitalism would be a clear winner even if it’s shit because Stalin and his ideology still has the 2 issues from the first panel but on top of that he would execute anyone with an actual good system.

      • @FluffyPotato
        link
        -119 months ago

        Yea, but the meme implies those are the two options.

          • @FluffyPotato
            link
            -19 months ago

            Well, there are like a million options beside capitalism so if it references Stalin I’m assuming it’s implying the alternative is the weird authoritarian ideology Stalin made that tankies want.

            Another interpretation I can think of would be socialism but Stalin isn’t linked with socialism much here in eastern europe. Could be this works better in the US since they have some weirdness with conflating Stalin, communism, authoritarianism and socialism but I don’t have those cultural impacts so I don’t get it.

            Best memes are the ones that require an explanation.

            • @whenigrowup356
              link
              79 months ago

              To the American right wing, all of the positions to the left of Trump are basically communism. There’s not much distinction there.

              That’s the position the comic is satirizing.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      Français
      -19 months ago

      What’s up with you and toothbrushes? I swear there’s a comment about toothbrushes on each tankie garbage post on this instance.

      • queermunist she/her
        link
        fedilink
        Français
        -49 months ago

        We want to abolish private property. Often, this freaks liberals out because they think it means we want everyone to live in a hive or something.

  • @negativeyoda
    link
    149 months ago

    Not a fan of capitalism, but enough with the tankie garbage

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      109 months ago

      You can be against reflexive non-sequitor defenses of capitalism without being a tankie. The last panel could have been “no, because the free market always corrects itself” and the meaning would have been the same.

    • Zyansheep
      link
      fedilink
      9
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      This is pretty standard left wing stuff, tankie garbage would be like: “we need to create a dictatorship of the proletariat to prevent climate change”

      Edit: well maybe it might be a little bit tankie from the last bit

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        17 months ago

        No, that’s still just being leftist. Tankie shit is “kill all who disagree with the revolution”.

  • @MindSkipperBro12
    link
    139 months ago

    Ah yes, I remember the USSR being known for being very environmentally friendly

  • NutWrench
    link
    fedilink
    Français
    119 months ago

    “Communism” does not describe any nation on Earth today, no matter what they choose to call themselves.

    Most of the “communist” (and “capitalist”) nations in the world are run by a small number of greedy, brutal assholes who have concentrated their entire nation’s wealth into an elite 1%. NONE of them believe in anything beyond money.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    Français
    89 months ago

    This is naive. Having grown up in a post communist country I know better than to fall for empty propaganda. You don’t know what you’re asking for calling out on communism as your saving grace. Communism didn’t allow for any valie creation and the system was too rigid to respond to people’s needs as economy was preplanned in 5 year intervals. Chronic shortages. Full employment was required by law but quality of life remained stagnant. Capitalism has its pitfalls too. The best outcome lays somewhere in the middle of the two

    • @hairinmybellybuttOP
      link
      Français
      39 months ago

      I’m not advocating for communism, and a political crisis of an authoritarian/totalitarian regime is a different problem from communism. Capitalism has a lot of problems, and I agree that there should be a better in-between to mitigate inequalities. Socialism is soluble in capitalism.

      • @Jackthelad
        link
        Français
        49 months ago

        The only cheerleaders for communism are people who have never lived under it.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      -59 months ago

      That’s kind of a bullshit question in that it’s easy to bullshit your way out of any possible legitimate challenge. The implication in the question is, of course, that capitalism never killed anyone, or at least a tiny fraction of those killed by communists. So, before we go any further, can I get an agreement that we’re not going to trot out the tired old “but that’s not really communism capitalism”? Because if we’re not going to allow that argument for communism just because it wasn’t the idealized, utopian version of it, then we ought not let imperfect capitalism slide.

      Mind you, I’m a believer in free markets where they exist, but I also believe that it’s important to be able to be critical of the things you believe in.

      • @voidMainVoid
        link
        119 months ago

        The implication in the question is, of course, that capitalism never killed anyone

        LOL. That isn’t what I was implying at all. I’m just saying that if you’re going to trot out “Communism killed X number of people”, then you should hold capitalism to the same standard. I’ve seen estimates that capitalism has killed orders of magnitude more people than communism.

  • Fazoo
    link
    fedilink
    Français
    -39 months ago

    Russia is a massive gas exporter. How is climate change a capitalist issue? At least we can report on it in the West without falling out a window.

      • Fazoo
        link
        fedilink
        Français
        09 months ago

        They were pumping that gas way before modern Russia.

          • Fazoo
            link
            fedilink
            Français
            09 months ago

            Right, because they obviously had no use for it internally. Some of you are really desperate to be ignorant. Lol

    • @hairinmybellybuttOP
      link
      Français
      19 months ago

      As you are writing this comment, is Russia is a communist country?

      Regulating capitalism entails limiting capitalist ideology. It’s simple.

      • Fazoo
        link
        fedilink
        Français
        19 months ago

        As you are writing this comment, did Russia only start pumping and burning fossil fuels? No, they’ve done so for decades, regardless of name change. Economic ideology has nothing to do with global warming. It’s inherit with basic human activity in every country. Operate factories? Impact. Meat farms? Impact. Military activities? Impact.

        It is amazing how many of you can’t grasp this.

        • @hairinmybellybuttOP
          link
          Français
          19 months ago

          At least planned economies can centralize and organize how society reduces consumption and carbon, for example if the Chinese governments says “less car more bus”, it happens very quickly and people don’t complain like babies in a SUV like in western countries.

          It’s immensely more difficult to do with a capitalist country where advertising is everywhere because consumers are being sold a dream of infinite growth.

          Economic ideology has nothing to do with global warming.

          Yes it does. Liberal ideology and the push for competition without oversight generate a disorganized chaos where people fend for themselves, without regards for the common interest.

          Democracy is short term system, Tocqueville talks about it. Democracy is all fine and dandy when you have abundant energy, but it becomes difficulty where you need to add physical constraints.

          • Fazoo
            link
            fedilink
            Français
            29 months ago

            the push for competition without oversight generate a disorganized chaos

            And Communism doesn’t have this very issue? Russia and China have done immense damage to the environment as well. Industrializing a nation does damage. Maybe you can mitigate it, but I don’t believe a system involving humans would ever achieve it. Whatever basis you use to run things, it causes problems, because everyone wants progress.

            • @hairinmybellybuttOP
              link
              Français
              -19 months ago

              A lot of what china produces goes to exports.

              A planned economy is a regulated system.

              Capitalism led to a deregulated capitalism, which is mostly under the oversight of capitalists, not by politicians or public interests. I want capitalism to become better regulated again, especially advertising. Do you believe that can happen? I don’t really know.

              All am I saying is that under a planned economy, capitalists cannot advertise for products and target the reward systems of the brains of consumers which work short term, not long term.

              Production should happen in a regulated system that benefits people on the long term. The production of sodas and taco bells are not in the same priority system compared to maintaining roads, to produce a steady food supply or have healthcare, teachers and a military. Supply and demand requires that you cannot mix everything when it comes to public interests. That’s why planned economies are much much “agile” in a war economy like what the climate is causing.

  • @Katana314
    link
    -69 months ago

    When we drink water, we experience inequality, poverty, and climate change. Stop drinking water?

    Not to be snarky, just never saw any good evidence full-socialism fixes these issues. I’m still okay with leaning in that basic direction, eg to support the homeless.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      49 months ago

      Drinking water doesn’t CAUSE inequality, poverty and climate change. Capitalism does.

      Whether or not the answer is socialism, capitalism is the problem.

      • @Katana314
        link
        -19 months ago

        What’s your proof? Can you point me to a society that is 100% functional under socialism and never has these issues?

        Leading question, I know, but the reason there’s not more support for this idea is that it’s hard to prove.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          39 months ago

          Me: capitalism is inherently flawed and will inevitably cause poverty. I don’t know if socialism is the answer but capitalism is the problem.

          You: demands proof of perfect socialist society

          • Catweazle
            link
            fedilink
            19 months ago

            @VikingHippie @Katana314, the solution is not some or other -ism, but the sovereignty of the people as a base and not that of some leader or lobbies of banks and multinationals. These should always be subordinated to the needs of the people and not their leaders

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          17 months ago

          Take these ideas and use your own brain to imagine the results.

          Capitalism: rewards you for being selfish.

          Socialism: rewards you for being alive.

          Which one do you think is going to incentivise asshole behaviour? And which one do you think will end up being marked by such behaviour?

  • @Jackthelad
    link
    -119 months ago

    Capitalism causes poverty?

    History would suggest otherwise.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      49 months ago

      It really wouldn’t, no. Capitalism inevitably leads to resource hoarding, which leads to resource scarcity aka poverty.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        0
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        The life of the average person post capitalism is hundreds of times better than before it existed. Being poor now is infinitely better than being middle class 600 years ago.

        Capitalism has allowed people more freedom than ever before, because of capatilism it is more possible for the average person to take risks in new ventures without the help and approval of their lord’s. Capatilism has continuously lifted people out of poverty, my family included.

        Capatilism is a meritocracy, but even the most incompetent person is better off today than before it’s existence. Yet those who are successful and driven are given a chance to elevate their quality of life that were unfathomable to people before. It’s what my parents did, and what I watched many other people do.

        Edit: typos

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          0
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          The life of the average person post capitalism is hundreds of times better than before it existed. Being poor now is infinitely better than being middle class 600 years ago.

          You’re confusing capitalism with science/innovation. It’s a common mistake but a mistake nonetheless.

          Capitalism has allowed people more freed than ever before

          Awful grammar aside, the opposite is true: capitalism has been the main driver of enslavement, both literally and figuratively.

          because of capatilism it is more possible for the average person to take risks

          No, because of capitalism, BEING the average person rather than a rich person carries a sharply increased risk of premature death

          new ventures without the help and approval of their lord’s.

          Not true. The Lords aren’t the literal landed gentry anymore, but the economic elite and the politicians they buy control the lives of regular people even more now than feudal lords did in the middle ages. They just have a bunch of multimillionaires telling people otherwise.

          Capatilism has continuously lifted people out of poverty, my family included.

          Capitalism has impoverished many times more people than it has enriched. Capitalism didn’t lift you up, another aspect of society did, such as a social safety net, innovation, neighbours who care etc etc. All things that exist without capitalism.

          Capatilism is a meritocracy

          🤯 Ok, I’m out. I was having fun picking apart your silly misgivings, but that’s just too delusional. If you can claim THAT with a straight face, there’s definitely not enough hope for you in the short term for you to be worth any more of my time and effort. 🤦

      • @Jackthelad
        link
        -29 months ago

        Let’s use China as an example.

        In 1990, there were 750 million people in poverty. Then the pro-market reforms kicked in, and in 2016 the number of people in poverty has fallen to 7 million.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          59 months ago

          Let’s use China as an example.

          As a general rule, let’s not. Their government is a mess of conflicting elements and as such, it’s not a good example of anything

          And I’m pretty sure you’re using the statistics that says you’re not poor if your income is above $1.50/day, which is as low a bar as calling someone a model of honesty for lying less than Donald Trump 🙄

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    Français
    -189 months ago

    “Okay, let’s say we were going to change some things…what did you have in mind?”

    “I was thinking maybe you should give me lots of shit for free.”

    • skulblaka
      link
      fedilink
      179 months ago

      I was thinking maybe we should stop giving the disgustingly rich lots of shit for free. But that’s just me. If some of that free shit makes it into the hands of people that can use it, all the better.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        -159 months ago

        What free shit? You mean, we should stop letting them keep so much of their own shit? I mean, I’m okay with that, but it’s got basically nothing to do with the presented problems. More people using more shit is not going to cool the globe.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        Français
        -109 months ago

        As bad as it is in many ways, it’s better for the environment. There’s less actual consumption.

        There’s a certain strain of Leftism that sees that people are taking the climate crisis seriously, so they’re like “Oh shit, it’s my chance to make good! If you care about the environment, you gotta give me shit! Capitalism is bad for the environment, and the opposite of capitalism is money in my pocket, let’s get going!”

        It’s purely self-serving.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          Français
          89 months ago

          Am I reading you right, that full tilt, unashamed crony capitalism is good for the environment?

          • @[email protected]
            link
            fedilink
            Français
            -99 months ago

            As opposed to what?

            Jesus Christ returning and establishing God’s Kingdom on Earth? Yeah, capitalism is probably worse.

            Compared to Soviet Communism? Way better.

            When people say “we need to stop capitalism”, do they mean add some new regulations? Or do they mean overthrowing society and replacing it with some as-yet-completely-nebulous leftist system? Cuz, like, I could get on board with the first one. But the second, or variations thereof, are downright ridiculous.

            • @[email protected]
              link
              fedilink
              Français
              89 months ago

              As opposed to regulated capitalism, with social safety nets, privatized losses, public services and utilities, regulations, and real accountability for choices that get people hurt.

              • @[email protected]
                link
                fedilink
                Français
                19 months ago

                I’m…not sure you’re really in sync with a lot of the people here. I’m 100% in favor of all of that, which I would just call healthy capitalism.

                I guess I’m reacting to other conversations I’ve had today. A lot of people with Mao banners and Che Guevara profile pics, calling for the total overthrow of capitalism.

                If people are just talking about capitalism with accountability, hell, sign me up.