• @[email protected]
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    1 year ago

    Time to De-Google I guess. I will keep using Firefox and if or when I come across any website pulling this crap I won’t hesitate to blast them to eternity. I suggest everyone else do the same please.

      • @_cerpin_taxt_
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        101 year ago

        With that kind of attitude, it’s a wonder no one listened to you a decade ago!

        • brothershamus
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          231 year ago

          Lol. As soon as I heard someone upload their contacts to Google I thought “welp, I’m out.” And yeah, no one listened then either.

          Still, we got diaspora working finally. May the force be with you.

          • @_cerpin_taxt_
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            101 year ago

            I’ve been converting folks where I can! I work in IT for a huge corporation, so our computers all come pre-loaded with Firefox set as the default browser haha.

            And with you!

              • @_cerpin_taxt_
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                91 year ago

                I don’t give my users a choice at work and those computers are all locked down to where they’d need an admin to install Chrome.

                As far as my personal life goes, I’ve just been the go-to guy for computer questions for friends and family most of my life, so they usually listen to my advice, but it also helps to just go into detail as to why the change is necessary (not recommended, but necessary). No one likes to hear that their web browser is making it impossible to block ads and is streamlining the ad experience so they get more ads. Everyone despises ads lol.

          • @[email protected]
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            41 year ago

            I cringe when I remember willingly filling out my contacts list like it was nobody’s business. I’m so sorry, friends and acquaintances. :(

    • Larvitar
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      141 year ago

      How do you “de-google” when most websites expect most browsers to use chromium and start requiring this to ensure companies buying ad space get the best bang for their buck security?

        • Bri Guy
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          151 year ago

          Yeah I don’t think this comment is accurate, the only website that gives you a subpar experience to incentivize you to use a Chromium-based browser that I’ve come across is, well, google.com on mobile.

          Luckily you can download a plugin on Firefox to trick google.com to show you the Chromium experience, or you can just use something like startpage.

            • @Jmr
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              31 year ago

              I selfhost SearXNG. Its pretty good. And you can turn on and off different search engines (e.g Google, Bing, Yahoo)

        • @[email protected]
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          1 year ago

          For me, when a website doesn’t work in Firefox but does in Chrome or edge, most of the time the real reason is due to me switching from a browser with dozens of add-ons to one with 0.

          Otherwise Firefox works fine everywhere.

        • Justin
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          21 year ago

          Google search on FF Android, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, Snapchat web, are all apps that have missing features on Firefox or straight up don’t work.

      • brothershamus
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        151 year ago

        Firefox and ublock origin to start. Site requires Chromium? Buh bye now.

      • @[email protected]
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        141 year ago

        I’ve been de-Googled for 6 months now and the internet works just fine on Firefox and Safari. No significant differences.

          • @[email protected]
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            11 year ago

            That’s fine, they’ll lose my traffic.

            So many people are acting like they have no choice, like you absolutely have to have everything that everyone else has. You’re obligated to use such and such platform.

            Try suffering for what you believe in over convenience for a bit. Things might just change if you give up some things because they’re shit

      • Auster
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        71 year ago

        I agree it is an uphill battle, but it must start somewhere. Else, it only gets worse, and then movements against such abuses will get easily crushed. As I like to say, “the hardest part of a journey is the first step”, but also “the future belongs to those who prepare now”.

          • @whatsarefoogee
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            31 year ago

            Except it’s practically impossible to exist in modern society without internet. Unless you’re rich and you can get other people to do internet-requiring tasks for you.

          • Apathy Tree
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            11 year ago

            Same. If my pihole breaks the internet because of this, welp. 🤷🏻‍♀️

      • @EyesEyesBaby
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        11 year ago

        I can count the websites I’m using that don’t work with Firefox on one hand.

    • kratoz29
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      01 year ago

      I like AOSP based roms (Monet and material you) and Pixel Launcher, I use (a bit Google Assistant) and Gmail, Google maps, YouTube… Even Chrome (and I’m pretty sure many macOS apps are Chromium based), how do I even start lol.

      • @whatsarefoogee
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        21 year ago

        There are AOSP based roms that are de-googled. You can use third party app stores to download foss software, or other 3rd party stores that let you download from Google play (aurora). iPhone is basically the only other choice, but it’s not any better in this context.

        Lots of alternative email providers. Protonmail is one.

        For maps, openstreetmap exists. You can also use Google maps without an account inside a secure browser. That will minimize data collection.

        You can use a downloader (yt-dlp or a gui that wraps it) for YouTube, or use a 3rd party app like NewPipe. Again, using YouTube without an account in a secure browser is an option.

        Chrome can obviously be replaced with Firefox/LibreWolf. If you must have a chromium based browser, you can use ungoogled chromium. chrlauncher is a small app that can be used to make it easy on windows and keep it updated.

        You cant really do anything about the apps that use chromium internally for rendering, besides finding replacements.

        • @[email protected]
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          11 year ago

          I haven’t been able to use aurora reliably since a lot of their accounts got banned. Are there any alternatives?

  • @[email protected]
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    691 year ago

    It’s small, but here’s a real actionable item that you can do to help:

    Put a gentle “Use Firefox” (or any other non-Chromium-based browser) message on your website. It doesn’t have to be in-your-face, just something small. I’ve taken my own advice and added it to my own website: https://geeklaunch.io/ (Only appears in Chromium-based browsers.)

    We can slowly turn the tide, little by little.

    Copy and paste:

    <p>
        This site is designed for <a href="https://firefox.com/">Firefox</a>,
        a web browser that respects your privacy.
    </p>
    

    (I also posted this on the HN discussion.)

    • @Anemervi
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      81 year ago

      One way to hide it for Firefox users.

      <p class="not-firefox-warning">
          This site is designed for <a href="https://firefox.com/">Firefox</a>,
          a web browser that respects your privacy.
      </p>
      <style>
      @-moz-document url-prefix() {  .not-firefox-warning { display: none; }}
      </style>
      
    • @[email protected]
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      1 year ago

      I have a banner on mine as well that I did a couple weeks ago: https://toast.al

      I’m mad tho since it has false positives with Mulch / Bromite on Android. I wasn’t able to find something right away to detect it, but the DRM stuff would probably work.

  • @spaceribs
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    431 year ago

    IE in the 2000’s called, it wants it’s dream back.

    Between this, hobbling adblockers and performing enough monopolistic acts to warrant swift government action, I really see this more as Chrome dying than the web itself.

  • @[email protected]
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    251 year ago

    Honestly this won’t effect me a ton, though I wouldn’t be surprised if I have to boot up a windows virtual machine just to check my bank in a few years cause my bank doesn’t know what Linux is and doesn’t want go trust it. I’m mad about it but given slowly but surely I’ve been replacing everything with FOSS stuff. I just fear one day they will force you to use corpo approved software to use WiFi , or get cell service

    • @whatsarefoogee
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      161 year ago

      It will likely not work inside a VM. Haven’t looked into the implementation, but they will probably want to use the hardware DRM manufacturers have been sneaking into the CPUs and GPUs.

      So you will be required to use “approved” CPU, “approved” OS and “approved” browser to access certain websites, as it is already the case with online streaming. You can kiss foss goodbye.

      • Livie
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        61 year ago

        Entirely separate laptop purely for those annoying sites it is, then. At least until the approval inevitably gets cracked and can be bypassed.

    • @[email protected]
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      31 year ago

      Just keep dropping Google shit and recommending to others.Critical mass will be hit at some point. There are too many smart and capable people in the world to succumb to a Google world.

    • MentalEdge
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      1 year ago

      DRM for the web.

      Basically, if your browser modifies a web page in any way (such as by blocking ads, applying a theme, disabling javascript, whatever), the server would be able to detect this and deny access.

      • kratoz29
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        11 year ago

        This sound scaring, but we have been working around DRM shit since it’s invention if I recall… Should we still be alarmed?

        • @whatsarefoogee
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          31 year ago

          Yes absolutely. Your hardware has built in DRM capabilities. Modern CPUs basically have a 2nd small CPU inside that runs proprietary code and manages the primary CPU, and it also handles DRM.

          That isn’t something you can easily work around.

    • @MyFairJulia
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      221 year ago

      WEI checks your browser, your extensions and your OS to ensure that a site is not tampered with. Officially it’s to make sure that sites don’t have to deal as much with bots.

      Too bad that many of us use adblockers to protect us from malicious ads or remove ads to make a website bearable. Google also happens to distribute ads which makes the fact that adblockers likely won’t work anymore a very concenient coincidence they totally didn’t have in mind.

      It’s also possible that non-Chromium browsers (for example Firefox) will stop working due to them either not supporting WEI or not being considered legitimate by whoever will do the checks.

      • snooggums
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        51 year ago

        It is also completely contrary to the whole concept of html web design where the browser has complete control over fonts, spacing, discreet content display, etc, so that each user can consume the content in a way that works for them.

    • Rayspekt
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      171 year ago

      Google is pushing some bullshit that would allow websites to check if a client (you, your browser, your device) is on the okie-dokey list. If yes, you may enter e. g. Youtube, if not the you’re out. It’s like a bouncer for websites and of course Google would be that bouncer. So you might stand out in the rain if you are using one of the following:

      • VPN

      • Adblock

      • Non-Chromium browser like Firefox

    • @Jmr
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      51 year ago

      deleted by creator

    • @Hera
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      41 year ago

      your user name 🤣

  • Redezem
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    111 year ago

    Question for anyone with more understanding of the implementation…

    Doesn’t this still presume the browser tells the truth to the third party attester? Could we not build something that just straight up lies to the attester? Says I’m a good Google chrome user with no extensions please serve me ads sir?

    • @donnachaidh
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      81 year ago

      My understanding was that the browser vendor itself would be the attester. So if Google says it’s Google Chrome, it probably is. Unless you somehow reverse engineer how Google decides that it’s Google Chrome and spoof that or something…

    • @[email protected]
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      11 year ago

      This system would use cryptography and hardware to make sure that you are unable to lie about any of this. Basically, there is a chip inside your CPU that contains special keys installed by the manufacturer. However, this chip only activates itself when it detects that your device is running the approved software. Furthermore, it is made (almost) impossible to open this chip and retrieve the keys without destroying it.

        • aeternum
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          11 year ago

          Bascially, at its core, it allows websites to attest that the website shown in the browser is the one given by the server. In principle, this could be a good thing, but in reality, it’s a very very very very very bad thing. Ad blockers will stop working. Accessiblity tools will stop working. At its worst, it will be a requirement to use a website that you only use appoved software and hardware. That means, only chrome, on windows for example. This is a very bad thing. It spells the end for FOSS. Firefox will be as good as dead. I don’t think I’m doomsaying here. I believe this is what will happen.

  • @[email protected]
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    1 year ago

    People saying de-google like google isn’t in the position Microsoft was in when they killed Netscape. It’s over y’all, once it’s in chromium it’s the standard, period. The open web is dead.

    Edit: ok, be in denial then.

    • @_cerpin_taxt_
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      441 year ago

      Get out of here with that defeatist attitude lol. There’s this little browser called Firefox. They take privacy and ad-blocking very seriously, and the browser is excellent and faster than Chrome now.

      I made the switch about six months ago and never looked back, and I am deep in the Googlesphere.

      • AnonTwo
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        51 year ago

        Isn’t the issue that the website will go through with this and firefox has to either comply or just not be able to view the webpage?

        Chrome has enough of the marketshare that websites probably don’t have to be concerned with whether firefox can support them or not.

        • @[email protected]
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          41 year ago

          Incorrect. Some companies supported IE5 when we had IE8 because market share was greater than 5%. We need to get Firefox to above 5%, and keep going to 10% and 15% as a real middle finger to say, DON’T EVEN TRY OR YOU WILL LOSE MONEY!

          • AnonTwo
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            1 year ago

            …the example is some companies supported Internet Explorer 5 when it had a market share of 5% vs… Internet Explorer 8

            …so what was Netscape Navigator’s marketshare at the time?

            • @[email protected]
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              11 year ago

              It is irrelevant to the point. The point is companies won’t implement webDRM if their firefox userbase is too big and it’s going to cost them money and users. If Firefox is used by 10% of users, the decision to implement it would potentially cost 10% revenue.

              I’m highlighting how companies make these decisions and how this can kill WEI.

              • AnonTwo
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                11 year ago

                Okay, so here’s why it’s not irrelevant:

                IE5 is still IE. Microsoft has an obligation to make it look good (so dumb users don’t bunk newer versions in with it) and browers have the same issue (Well i’m using the internet explorer so why isn’t it working?)

                This same perception (which I can absolutely assure you as someone who has supported older users does happen) Is not a perception that happens with different products altogether. If you’re using Netscape, they’d just tell you to use IE. If you’re using Firefox, they’d just tell you it was made with “Google” in mind.

                Using an example where the two products are in fact different versions of the same product is a significant difference.

                But still in regards to the argument about revenue, the gaming market is constantly showing that companies will definitely implement DRM under the assumption that it is providing them revenue, even if they lose customers because of it.

                • @[email protected]
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                  31 year ago

                  Gaming is very different. Losing a battle with DRM on gaming does not mean losing it on the web is a certainty. People can still choose DRMless games, and GOG is still going so it’s not a lost battle.

                  I know IE5 and IE8 are the same browser, I’m saying that company support decisions are made on market share and revenue. Any browser over x% is a supported browser. Over y%, it’s a partially supported browser. We need to make Firefox a supported browser through market share.

                  A retail website will not implement something that will cost them traffic, because they’ll lose more than they gain. My biggest concern is the first movers will be the streaming giants, and it’s probably a case, that people need to take a stand here, and cancel subscriptions if they get blocked, but it won’t even be coded if it costs more than it gains. They aren’t going to sacrifice 10% of their revenues, if they don’t gain more. This project will fail if no website supports it. The mission is to ensure websites don’t support it and it dies. If Chrome market share dies in the process, awesome.

      • @[email protected]
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        1 year ago

        It. Doesn’t. Matter. What. Firefox. Does. What part of google controls 3/4 of the web don’t you understand? If google puts it in Firefox has no choice, do it too or die. 5-10% of browsers not using it will not change anything except to lower that number to less than 1%.

        • @_cerpin_taxt_
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          171 year ago

          “Google controls 3/4 of the web, so not only am I going to roll over and take it, but I’m going to lube myself up for their convenience.”

          FTFY

          • AnonTwo
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            71 year ago

            Moving to firefox would still be rolling over and taking it though. If they don’t comply, you just don’t have permission to view the web page. It’s not like they’re going to go around that in any way.

            Unless you find an alternative to the website itself you’re out of options.

            The only ways of “not taking it” that I would see are either you find a way to ignore the DRM and view the site anyway, or you make the site drop the implementation, neither of which switching to Firefox does.

            • @_cerpin_taxt_
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              41 year ago

              Or just don’t visit websites that have DRM. Any website willing to work with Google on this DRM thing is a website I have zero desire to ever visit.

              • AnonTwo
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                -11 year ago

                That kindof argument is just naïve bordering obnoxious. It’s like an ostrich putting their head into the ground.

                It’s going to spread, more sites will use that DRM, and even if you decide you can keep off of them on principle, most people won’t.

                If it were remotely going to end up that way we wouldn’t have chrome being able to do this to begin with

            • @[email protected]
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              11 year ago

              It makes it more expensive to implement the DRM. Companies always consider things in terms of return on investment. If implmenting it gains x, but loses y% share of users, they will weigh it up, the more %ge of users on Firefox, the more it will cost and the less likely companies are to roll this out.

              • AnonTwo
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                11 year ago

                I mean…have you seen the gaming market on DRM? People point to arguments and research that it doesn’t even work and it still gets implemented in the AAA games…Firefox is going to need a lot more than outrage to build a share that threatens that.

                • @[email protected]
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                  21 year ago

                  DRM in games exists because their market accepts that. There is no real opposition. They already shed the people that cared about that. They can make more money from the DRM and extra stuff. This isn’t clear in browsers.

                  As for AAA, it’s dead to many, and indie game dev is getting stronger and stronger.

              • AnonTwo
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                1 year ago

                You aren’t providing reasonable criticism to the argument. It’s completely unrealistic and ignoring how we got here to begin with.

                He’s right to respond emotional when you just make a completely unrealistic argument.

        • Rayspekt
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          91 year ago

          Well then it’s back to non-commercial platforms like here in the fediverse. The people who care about this stuff will find a way and those who don’t won’t care. Its more or less like in the days of the old web.

        • @[email protected]
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          21 year ago

          It will because companies generally support anything above 5% otherwise they’re damaging revenue. Everyone needs to move to FF ASAP and don’t look back. Get all your friends and family on firefox.

      • Virkkunen
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        -71 year ago

        Unfortunately this little browser called Firefox has an insignificant amount of user share and pretty much no say in anything. While they might take privacy and ad blocking very seriously, they don’t take feedback and their users seriously at all, being very aimed at the “let’s make our userbase even smaller” after each decision or change.

        Also, Firefox is only faster than Chrome on synthetic tests on Windows 10, not reflecting real world usage in any shape or form, and on Android it’s just comically slower than any other browser available.

        And as a disclaimer, I’m a Firefox user for ever 10 years now, but I fully understand that while we might win some battles here or there, the war is already lost and it’s only a matter of time now. I’m also getting really tired of all the upkeep Firefox demands of me to be usable by my standards and all of Mozilla’s shenanigans.

        • @[email protected]
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          51 year ago

          Based on your the start of your post, I find it very hard to believe you actually use Firefox.

          One of those: “Firefox is sooooo bad, but trust me, I use it”.

          The war isn’t lost, and we need to get everyone using Firefox, it just seems that you are contributing to Google’s mission. It’s a bit like saying “as a Ukrainian, we are already lost, let’s give up”. “No, thanks, we won’t”. We gonna kill this thing like AMP.

        • snooggums
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          21 year ago

          We all know this is true because browser user share never changes over time based on user experience or anything.

        • @[email protected]
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          21 year ago

          and on Android it’s just comically slower than any other browser available.

          When’s the last time you used it? I just did a comparison against Chrome on multiple different websites, and besides Googles own sites they were essentially equal. Even if it were slightly slower, I’d still use it over any other option since I have full fat ublock origin installed on it.

          • Virkkunen
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            11 year ago

            When’s the last time you used it?

            I use it every day to browse Kbin, the only extension I have is Greasemonkey with KES and Redirect Amp to HTML scripts. My adblocking is done via NextDNS for a system wide blocking. For everything else I use Samsung Internet, and now I’m trying out Vivaldi, and the difference is astounding. Firefox takes at least 10 seconds to start loading any page, it lags to a halt when scrolling and it constantly thinks I’m trying to pull to refresh (yes I know it can be disabled).

            • @[email protected]
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              21 year ago

              I don’t know what to tell you, then. I don’t have any of those issues now. It’s been probably a good two years since I’ve had loading speed issues, never had the scrolling issues, and only had issues with the pull refresh when it first launched in Nightly.

    • @[email protected]
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      1 year ago

      Google isn’t alone in the box. The different governments and states should be in the box with them. It’s not like people warned Google and other corps are a threat to competition and freedom.

      We didn’t see anything coming as antitrust procedure.