https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/presidential-pardons-explained
Tried to educate myself on what the pardon consists of (why?)…and found that there is no real separation between the executive branch and the judicial branch, because prosecution is up to the executive branch and the president can pardon whomever e.g.
For instance, George Washington pardoned participants in the Whisky Rebellion, in part because they enjoyed considerable popular support.
Meaning, you are above the law if you are popular enough: i.e. president, their friend, their agent or even just his rioter. Good thing the opposition to trump is popular too, right?
The new Presidency will absolutely spin and use this event.
I think he was going to do that regardless and come up with a bullshit excuse. Now he doesn’t need a bullshit excuse and he’s still going to do it. Big deal.
I mean, it’ll make it harder / less likely for people to oppose things. Unless I’m still way too naive even after this last term. I’m still way too naive even after this last term aren’t I!?:-(
Ya, next thing you know they’ll pardon Charles Kushner and make him ambasssador.
No need to spin. I think we can all agree that pardoning Hunter after saying for years that he wouldn’t is bad.
I don’t blame him because…fuck it, the system’s broken anyway…but I’m not gonna pretend like I support it
They will spin it regardless:-P.
Not everyone seems to be agreeing that this is bad.
Yes the system is broken but the optics here look REALLY bad.
I liken it to what happened to the post office: first they shoot it in the leg, then blame it for being slow, then move to kill it off, citing how poor its performance is and thus deserving of blame and yeah sure “that” is why it must be killed off.
Now they have that much more support to kill off the DOJ - b/c despite how the President can do whatever he wants, now the previous President also did whatever he wants too (not really but again, optics, especially to those who will refuse to dig deeper into learning about something, even prior to showing up with a gun to help “defend democracy”).
The way it looks looks bad?
Your country is fucked.
Yes the system is broken but the optics here look REALLY bad.
I’d say this is far worse:
Ofc, but that’s more evidence of Trump doing whatever - whereas now they have something to point to in order to claim “bOtH siDeS”, which even if only 5% true / 95% false, can nonetheless work on a centrist who isn’t paying attention. And since the popular vote means nothing and those people control the entire outcome of every election, that could end up being highly impactful, e.g. in an upcoming House or Senate race where it might flip a seat towards Republicans that would otherwise have gone to Democrats.
So Biden should’ve let his son get dragged through the mud? What for? Principles? Americans have shown they don’t value any principles by voting for a rapist, fascist, con man. The least Biden could do was to keep his family safe.
Oh I thought you were asking what I meant. “The new Presidency will absolutely spin and use this event.” and then “Yes the system is broken but the optics here look REALLY bad.”
The reasoning doesn’t even matter anymore, bc it’s already done. I was talking about the fall-out. Centrists who aren’t paying attention won’t care about reasons anyway.
But if you want to get into it, it sounds like it would be a cost-to-benefit trade-off, e.g. if 16 months in minimum security prison, maybe able to just do a house arrest situation (didn’t they do that for Roger Stone?), then that’s one thing. As people are saying here elsewhere in the comments, “hunter filled out a form wrong” - which sounds like the penalty for that would be super low? But perhaps I’m missing something.
And some people consider principles to be quite important. Arguably it was the lack of enticement to vote Democrat that led to Trump winning the Presidency even?
Though anyway, I’m not trying to “both sides” this - I consider the matter already settled and done, and again was talking purely about the fall-out i.e. what happens next?
To do the things they would have done anyway. This is what we chose for ourselves.
Yes but now it will be that much more difficult to fight against it - assuming anyone even tries.
Hunter himself pleaded guilty, and this pardon is prior to sentencing (there are reasons for such obviously), and the justification is not that he is innocent, but that people who commit this crime usually are punished in a civil rather than criminal manner. Plus Biden seemed to be firm that he would never do this, until then he changed his mind and did - which on top of “DOJ bad” adds a measure of “President can do however he pleases”. Especially for people who aren’t paying attention, these are powerful symbols.
Conservatives were going to try, and who are we kidding almost certainly will have succeeded (definitely eventually anyway, even if heavy pushback might have lengthened the timetable more than they would have preferred), but their chances of succeeding right away are now higher than they were last week.
I wonder what the alternative would have been - 16 months in jail for the crimes he committed (that was only for one of the two though), vs. what now that will shake the foundation of our nation?
It’s clear from Trump’s first term that he is not constrained by “optics” or “precedent” at all. He already pardoned a large number of his allies for personal gain. He was always going to abuse the system regardless.
He is not, but centrists who aren’t paying close attention are.
Most American’s don’t pay close attention, and many are vulnerable to such an optic.
This fuels the thought that the Dems are corrupt - which ofc they are (not saying that this is an example of that, just in general) - though they are by no means equally so to the other side.
I’m not even suggesting that he should have done differently - maybe? but what do I know? - I am saying that this will become fodder for the other side to claim corruption.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
GOP will bitch ofc… but really they just wanted another hillaries emails to fill empty spots in the news cycle so their bullshit would get overshadowed. Biden stopped that shit.
That said, where was this norm defying stuff the past 4 years?
The same place it will be for the next two months.
Good. Republicans don’t play by the rules. Democrats shouldn’t either.
P.S Biden is still a pussy for not having the entire supreme court thrown into jail for “national security” reasons.
Republicans lie and cheat to advance their agenda, I’m glad Joe finally bent some rules to accomplish nothing for Americans.
Implying republicans bend rules to accomplish something for Americans…
am I?
I’m saying they’re accomplishing long term gains towards their objectives.
The wording didn’t reflect that so I was teasing. Should I have added a :P?
Ah, man. Great job putting my feelings into words.
When no one plays by the rules anymore, and people on both sides accept that, your democracy is dead and buried.
Hot tip. Our democracy is already dead and buried.
Why is that onus is on the Democrats only? What did they achieve by taking the high road all this time?
What did this achieve? You’re cheering for nothing.
What did this achieve?
Peace for someone unfairly hounded?
your democracy is dead and buried
I’ll let you in on a secret: I’m not a USAmerican.
I don’t think they meant you specifically…
I get downvoted for saying both parties are as bad as eachother. Whats the justification for this lol?
One’s a literal inssurectionist who pardoned all of his criminal cronies, who’s only defense against his attempts to steal the election was “I need criminal immunity”.
Biden pardons his own son who absolutely wouldn’t have been targeted were he not a Biden. Trump pardoned Charles Kushner, Jared’s father.
They are absolutely unequivocal.
You probably get downvoted for saying that because it’s false as fuck. And besides being false, it’s the laziest shit ever.
The dems: get mad at trump for pardoning people they dony like
Biden: pardons his own son.
The dems: when we do it its ok.
Clearly as bad as eachother wake up they want u to get distracted by this while they carefully tie the noise around ur neck.
Just cos its lazy doesnt mean it aint true
It’s almost like there’s more to a political party than their pardons…
Did a former Democratic president say he was going to make life difficult for his enemies? Nope.
This implies that the Democrats are now convinced Trump can control the Judiciary.
Which means they don’t believe the separation of powers works anymore.
So in essence, the US democratic system is now dead.
One party killed it, and the other has given up their belief in it.Are you implying that Democrats should have faith that the system works? Everyone has seen it doesn’t. The courts aren’t legitimate, and trump made sure of it.
Trump’s pardons wouldn’t make his top 150 crimes. I barely saw any reaction to those. so off the bat you seem entirely full of shit and looking for some lame excuse to pretend the parties are the same. you haven’t paid any attention whatsoever and that’s why you’ve a shitty lazy false argument. not weighing in is a good option for those like this.
That’s not the point though and I think you know.
abusing the pardon system is not pardoning people that we don’t like.
Dummy
That’s like saying Hitler and Gandhi are the same because they both breath air.
Some people think you are stupid because it seems you can’t grasp that two things aren’t the same just because they share one attribute.
Other people think you are actively lying, using an easy to see trough rhetoric to normalize the gross shit reps do.
Pardoning your son isn’t the same as letting people die because you think their body belongs to you. They are not equally bad. One is clearly worse.
And that is why you get down voted.
When one side plays by the rules and the other side doesn’t, then the side playing by the rules will always lose. That’s a lesson the Democrats are just learning.
What’s important to note is who is willing to break the rules first. That’s your bad guy.
People tend to downvite things they think are stupid.
because there is no evidence for that statement.
Gross. Way to role model being the party of social equality.
are you joking? hunter filled out a form wrong.
who could possibly care?
pop your head out.
He pleaded guilty to 3 felonies and 6 misdemeanors for not paying $1.4 million over 3 years, including making false deductions and dipping into company funds. That’s not “filling out a form wrong”, and if it is, his father should pardon everyone who has been charged under the bad laws that allow people simply “filling out a form wrong” to catch 9 charges. Especially for the people who couldn’t afford accountants and lawyers to file the form correctly for them.
Pardoning your own son only for any possible federal crime, not just the ones he was charged with, especially after saying you wouldn’t, is gross nepotism. And the pardon starts from 2014 when the tax and gun charges are for 2016 onwards, which implies there’s more Joe Biden knows about.
are you joking? hunter filled out a form wrong.
Tell it to these chuds talking about death of democracy or whatever.
This was a witchhunt targeted at Hunter only because he’s Joe Biden’s son. Good on him on doing this after that Orange cunt gloated how he’s going to come after ‘Biden crime family’.
