I don’t want to be some white collar stiff. I don’t want to work in a place with ties. I don’t want to be a tie guy. I don’t wear them to weddings, because that’s not me.
Nothing against tie people. It’s just not me.
I tried to get into ties. I bought myself a few nice ones, and coordinated them with my outfits. It was, briefly, glorious.
Then the idiots in charge started to treat me like I was one of them. They started to hold my opinions on the same level as their own.
I never said, “No, Bob, we don’t both have valuable inputs in this nuanced technical topic. I have decades of deeply technical experience and you have a fine arts degree and took four seminars on interpersonal skills.”
But I did stop wearing ties.
I’m a fan of fine arts degrees and those interpersonal seminars, but neither one (alone) will keep a fragile web service running safely.
Now I show up to those meetings noticeably underdressed, and everyone in the room assumes “oh shit, this person must know their shit, it certainly wasn’t their fashion that got them into this room”.
It irritates me that it works.
I started in the tech world in a suit and tie as a dev for a blue chip.
As I’ve (begrudgingly) progressed up the shitty ladder, my smart casual has become more casual.
I can’t remember the last time I wore a tie to work.
Not even to an interview.
Maybe there’s some truth in this.
I used to work with a guy who would wear a shirt and tie to work, and we all assumed something was wrong with him. Everyone else was wearing shorts and flip flops, and here’s this guy in a suit and tie. Why?
When I was fresh out of college (about 20 years ago for context) I was shadowing an executive for a meeting with a bunch of people. I asked him if I should wear a suit and tie. He said you can’t go wrong in a suit and tie, but whatever you wear tells everyone in the room what you want them to think of you.
Some people dress comfortably because they don’t want to impress anyone. Others dress comfortably because they want you to think they don’t care if you’re impressed. And then there are people who dress comfortably because they don’t need to impress anyone.
I asked him what the difference was, and he said it’s the cost of the tie they aren’t wearing. I always thought that was clever while also completely useless.
Then in the meeting he made a bigoted joke and killed the entire deal. So, I don’t quote his advice often, but I thought it was relevant here.
I don’t trust a man in a tie. Unless you’re at a wedding and it’s soon to be around your head, men in ties have ulterior motives.
Others dress comfortably because they want you to think they don’t care if you’re impressed.
That’s me!
And then there are people who dress comfortably because they don’t need to impress anyone.
I’m working hard toward becoming this person.
I asked him what the difference was, and he said it’s the cost of the tie they aren’t wearing.
This tracks, and correctly places me in the middle category. I bought my particularly nice ties during a particularly nice sale. (The ones I gave away because I don’t wear ties anymore.)
Then in the meeting he made a bigoted joke and killed the entire deal.
That’s an aspect of why I don’t wear ties anymore. I don’t feel like I’m great at signaling and being an ally, but at least I’m not dressed like an asshat.
. He said you can’t go wrong in a suit and tie
You really can though. There are a lot of positions in big tech companies where everyone will be suspicious of you if you show up dressed like that. Even our CEO doesn’t wear a tie.
My grandmother tied my tie for me in 2008, she died in 2014 and it’s still tied. I just slip it over my head on the rare occasion I need to wear one
Don’t spill anything on it 😳
That’s such a cool piece of legacy - deeply personal, but only known to those you share it with. I hope I leave that kind of legacy.
I’m 37 years old and I have never worn a tie in my entire life, nor do I expect to ever wear one
I am also 37. Hell yeah, brother. Let’s take down the neck tie bourgeoisie.
When it comes to wardrobe, I find relish a better option than mustard.
Let’s talk hot pepper relish.
My favorite relish has mustard seeds in it and it’s glorious.
Maybe start wearing a bib?
Story time!
Years ago I had a client who owned a big car dealership. Really good guy and a straight shooter. His son, who is roughly my age, was the GM.
Anyway, I was wearing a suit and tie because I was on my way to a funeral but I had to stop by the dealership on the way. Stopped by the GM’s office to say “hi” really quick. He looks at me and get this concerned expression on his face before saying, “You didn’t let dad see you like that did you?”
I told him I hadn’t seen his dad and asked why?
He says, “You need to ditch the tie ASAP. He’s not going to like that at all. One time, a couple reps from [auto manufacturer] came by all suited up. They sat down in Dad’s office and without saying a word, he grabbed some scissors and lopped both of their neck ties off. He hates ties. Says it makes you look like you think you’re better than your customers.”
Knowing his dad, I honestly believed the story. But, if I had any doubts they were eliminated some time later. I was leaving the dealership one day when two reps from [auto manufacturer] pulled into the parking lot, got out of the car, took off their jackets and ties and left them in the car before going in.
I got a bow tie a few years back and my neckties are now hanging unused. They are just as tricky to tie, but they don’t get into everything when you lean over.
I want to get back into bowties someday. Maybe when the kids are older.
The fad passed a few years back and now it is hard to find good ones again. Good luck.
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I read it as “it makes me happy that I wear a tie so infrequently that I have to look up how to do it every time I do.”
You are literate. Thank you.
No. I relish the fact that I don’t know how. I don’t want to know how to tie a tie and I’m happy about it.
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I went to Catholic school.
I remember that part of the bible where Jesus was all like, “You better look nice or you will go to hell, you heathen!”
I have to look up how to tie any fancy knots like an Edritch Knot, or a Trinity. I could probably tie a full Windsor or Half Windsor in my sleep, despite the fact that I have only had a few dozen reasons to wear a tie in 44 years.
I don’t use Windsor knots around my neck anymore, since I found out that the Edritch and Trinity knots exist.
Depends on the occasion for me. Sincere formal wear like a job interview or funeral? Full Windsor. Half Windsor looks like ass to me. Fancy knots for general insincere event formal wear.
Pressed shirts, suit jackets and ties are for white collar criminals.
Like, the uniform of a burglar is black pants, a black and white striped shirt, a 5 o’clock shadow, domino mask, wool cap and a big brown sack with a $ painted on it slung over his back. The man who says “just let the power plant leak” or “we’ll keep using lead pipes” or “it’ll cost more to recall the cars than the wrongful death lawsuits” or “All employees will be subject to regular drug screenings provided exclusively by My Brother In Law’s Drug Test Company” wears a suit and tie.
When do you wear them if not to weddings? I can’t think of many events more formal than a wedding.
