- cross-posted to:
- progressivepolitics
- cross-posted to:
- progressivepolitics
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Who knew openly calling for the deaths of fellow Americans on hate radio for decades would lead to this? Oh yeah, pretty everyone who understands the garbage the conservatives peddle.
Conservativism is the real predictor.
Hm, behind “not a paywall”, but I wonder if being a cop is any sort of predictor, as well.
Jensen and his colleagues found that while military personnel and veterans are not more likely to radicalize to the point of violence than members of the general public, when service members and veterans do become radicalized, “they may be more likely to plan for, or commit, mass casualty crimes, thus having an outsized impact on public safety.”
Well yeah, they are more dangerous than the average person and it’s not like their mental health care is great, like what did you think would happen?
What you think would happen is the hypothesis. This is the result of its being tested.
I wonder if military training itself is radicalizing a person? just kidding. I don’t wonder. I know it has to. The basic principle pushed behind everything in military indoctrination is that one should be not only ready but happy and excited to risk their life to kill others. Dying for this purpose is virtuous as the halls of military installations are covered with the citations of Medal of Honor recipients, many who received the award posthumously. Basically, they see how individuals that sacrificed their lives for the greater goal of protecting their team and destroying the enemy are celebrated at the utmost honorable. The instilled model holds that fellow service members and countrymen are good and whomever they say is enemy is totally evil and must be killed. There is no transitional program to remove that perspective at the end of service, so it stays there. The veteran knowing that they didn’t think that way before service may understand that they have to develop a new model or adjust the military one by watching others. If things get too stirred up in a veteran, then the model might be applied if there aren’t others to choose from that may provide a solution to the veteran’s issues. If the military model is applied, whomever the veteran has placed in the enemy slot based on what media pushes (which in the past decade or so is that even fellow Americans are enemy), friends say (many using the crap from the media),…whatever input they receive to help understand the world around them…that group is now not only marked as enemy, but can be the target of the veteran’s self-understood virtuous sacrifice through violence.
I don’t understand how this isn’t obvious. People are people. Civilians are people. Enemy are people. Veterans are people. People are people. Training people with intense brainwashing to hate a vague concept so that they deeply believe at their core that killing others for the protection of their team is going to result in someone that thinks that way. What other way could it possibly result in? Veterans can be ticking time bombs if their environment is setup for it. Comparing themselves to others that don’t seem to feel the same, many commit suicide to clear their mind and end the turmoil because they can tell others don’t even understand what they are thinking and feeling, let alone help them, so there’s no respite from what happens in there. The only way to end it is to literally end it. If they’re going to kill themselves, might as well follow the exalted examples of the Medal of Honor recipients.
The USA had lots of problems from having so many Civil War veterans, including lots of violence:
It makes sense. Everyone is angry, but these guys have the know-how and likely the weapons lying around to do real damage.
Signing up to be humiliated and put through bootcamp, given a gun, freedom to kill and voluntarily putting yourself in the line of fire is a predictor of extremist violence? I’m gonna have to disagree with you on this one.
How about add on daily propaganda that tells you that the elite are out to get you, immigrants are invading, trans people are everywhere, communism is taking over and your way of life is disappearing … as well as messaging constantly telling you that you’re poor because of these reasons and if you get hurt or get sick you’ll go into debt, if you go to school you’ll go into debt, you buy a house you’re in debt, you buy a car you’re in debt, you eat you’re in debt, you breathe you’re in debt … all because of poor people, elites, immigrants, trans people … constantly droning on and on every single day.
All In a country where anyone can get a prescription to an antipsychotic or antidepressant and have the ability to buy a gun or many guns.
What could go wrong
How about add on daily propaganda that tells you that the elite are out to get you, immigrants are invading, trans people are everywhere, communism is taking over and your way of life is disappearing …
But enough about the police academy…
Fun fact, trans people are twice as likely to serve in the military as opposed to the general population (for now)
All In a country where anyone can get a prescription to an antipsychotic or antidepressant and have the ability to buy a gun or many guns.
I don’t think the main violent threat is in people who do take their medicine in time and care about their mental health.
It’s like the ex-Soviet countries where people who’ve never been to a psychiatrist and never allowed thought that something may be off with them are proud of that, cause they are “normal” or something. As if having a condition was something shameful, or even transferring via personal contacts.
I mean, that aside, people with most developed and mature and intelligent personality I’ve met all didn’t ignore their mental health and took medicine and probably had a D or two.
Statistically people with no condition from DSM are just over 4% of the population. That’s the absolute minority.
Plus, even rationally it doesn’t make sense. Even if it is shameful to have a mental disorder, pretending you don’t have it will most likely make it worse (and hence more shameful) than if you accepted it and got treatment.
If we are talking about ex-USSR, the very popular among ignorami there idea of mental disorders is that these are not genetic like albinism, but something infectious like HIV, or a conspiracy by psychiatrists, or some other crap.
It’s stigma combined with fear. Well, and also the fact that in USSR only people with really debilitating conditions, like schizophrenia in full cognitive decline stage, would be hospitalized, and usually forcibly. And, of course, another category of patients - political dissidents diagnosed with a specifically invented type of schizophrenia to lock them up.
EDIT: Ah, and also that weird idea that people with mental conditions are always in everything less intelligent than people without those. Say, when you are autistic, people often outright refuse to understand what you say, until met with reality. References to stoicism or common ideas that Einstein or some Roman emperors or someone else very probably were autistic, or, say, Anthony Hopkins, and who not, - these are all in wain until they retrospectively see you were right.
This, however, is too general.
You don’t say!
Oh, i should really introduce him to my sister!
I would suggest that the violence he committed (not counting the suicide obviously) wasn’t extremist, it was pretty close to justifiable.
Edit: Sorry, are people really downvoting me for saying that Pyle killing the drill sergeant was close to justifiable? Have you not seen the movie or did you get the wrong message from it?
Funny (/s) that it jumped sharply shortly after troops started coming home from the war with dogshit mental support for what they’d been put through. Almost like traumatizing people and then throwing them away creates bad outcomes.
Related question: what percentage of current police force are former military?
That propublica piece on that guy that infiltrated 3%ers showed militia actively recruiting police and people in power.
While this is true, that didn’t answer @[email protected]’s question.
From what I was able to find, it seems that about 25 percent of law enforcement is former military according to this source. However, I am not sure if that means people higher up in the ranks or how much of them actually patrol and are out in the field.
Yeah EOD, specialists, and others going to work in a police or sheriff’s department would count even if their jobs are specialized enough you may not consider them cops in a traditional sense.
Hmm. Better make more cod games and top gun movies about it. That will tamp things down.
Yes, video games are the problem
Jokes aside, yeah top gun is nothing but propaganda lol. COD games are a bit of a stretch, people make these kinds of games all over the world, they don’t do it to trick children into signing for the US army. If cod died today nothing would change.
Removed by mod
They weren’t talking about video games in general though were they. They listed two very clear examples of US military propaganda, one of which isn’t even a video game.
Also the US military has been literally directly involved in CoD development for many years.
For anyone interested in, not really on topic but i just remembered this great vid. It goes really into depth about what torture is, how it relates to torture in real life and why the way it is used in these games is pretty questionable, especially considering they are basically developed as ads for the US military.
Youtube - Analyzing Every Torture Scene in Call of Duty — All 46 of Them
The U.S. military is also happy to lend personnel and equipment to any U.S. film or TV production as long as it glorifies them.
Doesn’t excuse this or counteract the amount of negative stuff, but I will never forget this interesting news like 10-15 years ago of a guy who saved someone’s life on the side of the road after a car crash.
Apparently whatever he did medically he said he learned from I think the game was America’s Army, which was directly made by the US military as some form of simulation or something.
I guess it was just interesting that it had real enough things that someone actually learned inadvertently how to save a life from a video game the military had involvement in.
It wasn’t just real enough. The game contained an actual first aid learning tool, and test, which you had to pass in order to advance in the game. So anyone who learned it and learned to play medic got an actual first aid course by the US military for free.
This is not meant to endorse anything one way or the other, I am just a video game nerd who thinks that America’s Army is a very interesting oddity.
Yeah its honestly kinda an interesting concept, I feel like itd be an interesting way of earning stst boosts in certain games like say foxhole.
Thats the kind of propaganda i can get behind. First aid simulator funded by the US gov lol
Right?! Propaganda telling us who to hate? Evil. Propaganda telling us how to save a life, no matter whose it is? Sounds great to me!
If I recall correctly we’re not even the first country to ram into the problem of having a massive military also creates a bunch of terrorists.
Grammar question.
Did you mean ‘run into’?
Because ‘ram into’ also works.
Same sentiment but my choice of words was intentional.
Nice.
I once wrote ‘snaked into’ when I meant ‘sneaked into.’
That was a typo, but I let it stand. I’ll try ‘ram into’ at some point.
A lot of wannabe extremists are encouraged to join the military to receive training by other wannabe extremists.
yeah. street gangs do the same. young kid is reticent about killing. get them to join up at 17 and comes back with valueable skills and if a war was happening then all the better as they will get rid of that hesitation they had.
I wonder what the balance is between that killer conditioning & training coming right back to the streets versus an unexpected career that takes the person away from the gang.
That’s the problem of the other side, sorry. Leftists should join the military to receive the necessary training. Why - because a knife is not good or bad, it’s a tool. If your enemy is buying a knife, you’d better buy a knife too.
Joining the brown children murder brigade for the valuable experience to oppose the brown children murder brigade is a pitch hadn’t heard before.
I think you should exercise your own best judgement on whether your service will involve murdering brown children.
But it’s strange you haven’t heard this before. It’s a rather old story, of needing to have soldiers to do an uprising, and one doesn’t become a soldier by doing what I am, writing stupid things in the Internet.
Working for the brown children murder brigade with no intention of murdering children seems a bit misguided but what do I know.
Well, there were some field commanders in Artsakh in the 90s who’d volunteered to be sent to Afghanistan with Soviet troops before with the sole purpose of getting experience. So … it’s fucked up, but not misguided, and it’s not what you said.
That’s the problem. These guys get out of the military and there are no enemies, so they have to invent them. Your solution just produces more people looking for enemies to stab.
If there are already a lot of such guys on the other side, and these ones will be on your side, then it’s still right.
“Side”
This isn’t a sports game, it’s real life.
When I had a yellow jacket nest in my garage, the solution wasn’t “more yellow jackets,” it was to get rid of the nest. When your house is on fire, the fire department doesn’t show up with flame throwers to make more fire. When you accidentally poop your pants, the solution isn’t to poop some more.
Yet somehow when the problem is gun violence, people think the solution is somehow more guns and more violence.
One can find such analogies and one can find analogies with the opposite result.
That’d be because analogies don’t prove anything.
And nearly all of those are right wing or religious extremists. So it seems the determinor is vets recruited by extremist organizations.
