Like all buildings should have some kind of standard for solar panel placement added or retrofitted with a very low cost modular mounted frame. Then, when you get an appliance it has a built in battery and comes paired with the right size panels that are sized for each region in the local store/wholesale distribution layer.
The whole scheme is hybrid in the first phase of a decade or so while edge cases and issues come up, like how to handle high rise buildings. Then the burden of grid infrastructure is less of a burden on the poor in total because few people are going to replace all appliances in this instance unlike those that can install a whole house solar system. The entire thing would be more incremental and serviceable over time with modularity. It is less efficient overall compared to a single controller and battery but doesn’t require large upfront cost or repurchase later down the line.
Adding solar panels to building is fine, but why do you want to bundle appliances and electricity?
Sounds like you’re introducing a lot of complexity for unclear benefit.
Adding batteries to appliances is nontrivial. Large batteries are a fire risk, which is why home batteries are usually outside on a fireproof wall.
If you put batteries in a dishwasher, they would need to be fireproofed.
You would increase the cost/complexity of every appliance.
It’s easier to just have the solar inverter and battery system independent of the equipment. It’s relatively inexpensive to retrofit a home for an auxiliary power source. The complexity is when you tie into the grid.
Some appliances are solar ready. Some hvac systems and pool systems accept direct solar panel connections.
If i weee i charge, i would require all homes to be able to support solar panels and a battery system. The cost to do so at time of construction is insignificant.
If i weee i charge
It took me a solid minute trying to figure out what the typo was. It’s actually TWO typos!
If i were in charge*
In charge of what exactly is still unclear however.
we both know i wouldn’t be in charge of correcting typos.
Except batteries are heavy and expensive? Which appliances can feasibly be battery powered for a practical amount of time?
Refrigerators, microwaves, and LCD TVs come to mind.
A refrigerator uses 300 to 800 watts. That is 2-4kWh a day
Microwaves use 600-1000 watts. 6.1 kWh per month if used 15 minutes a day.
TVs use like 100 watts. 4.55kWh a month with 1.5 hrs of watch time a day.
All 3 are big enough to accommodate an appropriately sized battery to mitigate their draw. Having a decentralized battery mesh system coupled with solar main power does have some advantages, but I find it hard to say that it would be more advantageous than a centralized system due to cost and complexity.
A 3kWh battery is like >$1000? Wouldn’t this double the price of a fridge?
I think the idea is to have the battery as an accessory that you can add-on.
And the batteries wont last nearly as long as the fridge should. Do you just toss the whole thing when it starts defrosting every morning at 2am?
I think the idea is to have the battery with a passthrough, so the fridge draws from the battery and the battery charges from the solar/grid.
With modern battery monitoring the health of the battery could be monitored and warn the owner should there be an issue.
That works for a phone or a laptop when the manufacturer expects you to upgrade every few years. An average house might have dozens of different items, each with its own battery with different size, capacity and discharge needs. Its already hard to track down replacement batteries for older model phones and laptops, and its going to be ten times worse trying to find just the right battery for your specific model of printer or coffee machine years after its left production. Are appliances just supposed to be disposable now, or is it just a gimmick for the first couple of years you own something? In either case, it doesnt seem like the savings to the power grid could possibly justify the expense or the waste.
My (large) fridge hasn’t even pulled 1kWh today. Modern fridges are impressively efficient.
I’m steadily electrifying my life - and adding solar panels as I go.
Solar is already super modular and if you package the panels, then you rob the consumer of the ability to pick a panel that works for them (physical size for example, but where you live will also have a big impact on capacity requirements). Also, solar panels have a lifespan that exceeds most consumer appliances. I just replaced a ten year old stove but my solar panels have a 25 year warranty. The replacement cadence is very different.
I think the fridge power consumption I found is based on an empty fridge, so having one filled with food is more efficient.
This isn’t that good of an idea. While it seems like a good idea as we skip the loss of DC solar panel to AC mains to DC appliance.
Currently each appliance* you have runs at 110/240 AC and will transform down to whatever DC voltage the device needs.
Solar panels produce DC voltage somewhere between 12v to 52v.
Plugging in a device that expects 12v into a 48v line will blow something up.
*Some appliances like washing machines, fridges, toasters, kettles don’t always use DC some will still step down the voltage to something more usable.
The power can easily be addressed in a buck boost topology and matched to the machine in question much better than a general system for the home as it would remove any need to worry about the standard voltages. Match to the appliance’s needs directly. Then use a small step down wall wart like plug pack to boost the battery as a hybrid option if needed during the down cycles.
I like my windows and am not going to get up on the roof to mount a panel and send wires down each time I get a new appliance (oh, and what happens if I replace an appliance that was bundled with a panel with another?)
It would be really nice if there was a way to easily daisy chain panels. By easy, I mean mount to the roof, plug into the end of the existing set of panels, no electrician required. Then if you got a new appliance you could just add the new panel to the old one and carry on.
But yeah, expecting the general public to add a solar panel every time they get a dishwasher is unrealistic.
That seems extremely inefficient. You already have a panel in your house with some capacity to push power to your appliances. It makes a lot more sense for most applications to just set up enough panels to feed that power and put them through an inverter.
I don’t see a scenario where you build a bunch of blank scaffolding in your roof (assuming you have an accessible roof in the first place) and then have to climb up there every time you buy a new microwave.
Too many failure points. Cheaper, more efficient, and more strategic to have houses with SOME kind of solar power generation built in that feeds the appliances… Bonus points if it uses resources that are abundant around the area…
Another thought I’ve had that warrants a separate comment: Why in the hell arent we wiring DC circuits into houses? Almost everything converts ac to dc these days via a power supply. Why not cut that out and have a larger more efficient main dc rectifier at the panel and run that to USBC ports around the house?
DC power is very inefficient at low voltages. It’s hard to get 5v to stay steady at distances over about 10 feet
Oh fair enough. Amd i guess you wouldn’t want to pump 30v or whatever and use a buck converter because now all we have are heat generators.
Im going to speak from experience here that adding solar to my house was fairly easy and fairly cheap. The caveat being that i did it all myself. An understanding of basic electrical concepts and watching a few videos of how to mount the panels and bingo. What would have cost me probably 30k to have a contractor do i did myself for under 7k. Modern AIO inverters are a godsend along companies like SanTan solar who have fantastic deals on batts and panels. The biggest hindrance to us all are going to be the local nimbys and code nazis.
