How to get out of an uncomfortable egg culture situation with this one simple trick.
Real talk: Calling people eggs is a violation of the egg prime directive, and is considered invalidating as you are trying to say that a person is not the gender they identify as, that their identity is invalid. Don’t call people eggs, like ever, it’s extremely uncool.
I’m imagining my grandpa trying to decode what it means to call an ftm femboy an egg and just losing his mind
yes hello I’m not a grandpa but I am very confused I have never heard this term used for anything but these
how did it become derogatory to ftm femboys“Egg” is a term used to refer to a trans person who hasn’t come out (of their shell) yet.
ohhhhhh lol now it seems so simple I feel a bit dumb for not getting it 😅 thanks for spelling it out for me
Oooh it’s like “closet”. Thanks!
based and my-gender-is-none-of-your-business pilled
the whole egg concept always rubbed me the wrong way and this finally put words to it, it feels so strange that people who reject assigned labels will them merrily go ahead and force labels upon others.
Just let people be people, and they can inform you of their identity if they so wish.does egg in this context refer to the femboy wanting to express feminine but doesn’t really understand what being a femboy is, or is the femboy expressing feminine and being called an egg as in the “you are just trans and dont know it” BS? I’m a tad confused 🥺
Egg in this context means ‘you’re really a girl but not admitting/realizing it yet’.
ohhh ok I get it now. Thanks!
That’s such a direct parallel to “its just a phase you’ll grow out of it” that it’s straight up bigotry if you spend 5 seconds thinking about it.
Can someone explain the concept and etymology of “egg”? I am wholly uninformed and search engines are now shit.
The trans person in question is the hatchling. Someone who is an egg is someone who has yet to hatch into their true identity.
Thank you
As a concept it’s a person that’s trans but hasn’t realised yet. Sometimes there are signs, which is where you might run into the mentioned situation of calling someone an egg. Experimenting with clothing made for women is a common/obvious one, but it doesn’t always mean they’re an egg. They might just like the clothing but still identify as a man.
The etymology? I dunno.
thank you
I think the etymology stems from the fact that an egg hatches into a chick.
Oh, I get it now 🙄
For those not in the know “chick” is a term to refer to women. There are varying opinions on its use but it is considered by many to be objectifying and misogynistic.
…That actually makes the idea of calling other people eggs somehow even worse.
wasn’t there something about it being considered misogynistic except if you’re in spain, then it’s considered normal?
I’m from Spain, here egg/huevo is used for male balls, no one would use it for trans identity.
Chick/pollito is not used for girls because pollito actually sounds more like a small dick? Kinda, small dick would be pollita. So yeah.
No, in Spain it’s not considered normal, it’s just not something you would say to anyone. Weird AF.
Not sure, I just know that I’ve known people who complained because men called them chicks, claiming it was demeaning, objectifying, or misogynistic. I don’t personally know that much since I’m not actually a woman. Sorry to all if I came off as mansplaining, or… enbysplaining…? 🤷
okay I do agree that calling people eggs is problematic, but this argument sucks. You can’t both ask me to treat FtM people differently from men and ask me to treat them the same as men. The reason you don’t call someone an egg is because their gender is none of your business.
I thought the point of this was to treat them both the same. If yes, you’re not cool for invalidating two people’s genders, if no, you’re still not cool for invalidating one person’s gender. Maybe I’m misreading but I don’t see your comment represented in the meme.
Disclaimer: I don’t really believe this – but the counter-argument would be to the one on the left: “why does it matter if the man is trans?” (which is a numbskull counterargument, but it fits in the context of the question on the right.) It’s just dumb to put those two boxes next to each other IMO because it draws a very stupid venn diagram.
Removed by mod
I think the point of bringing up trans men is that sometimes people say that calling cis people eggs is harmless because you’re at worst making someone in the supermajority briefly uncomfortable, and potentially helping someone who’s trans figure themselves out. The point of bringing up trans men in this image is to point out that this argument misses how this attitude still ends up hurting trans people.
Even if I’m right about the intent though, I agree it doesn’t come through that well, and I’m still feeling like this guess is a stab in the dark.
yeah but if they are dressed as a actual egg
Like this?
exactly
egg-actly
Can I call me egg tho
If you want to call yourself an egg, you absolutely can. The Egg Prime Directive governs treatment of others, but you’re free to call yourself an egg if you wish, since by virtue of you deciding to do it you are already okay with labeling yourself that way. Even if you somehow aren’t okay with you doing it to yourself. I mean… misgendering yourself is between you and yourself alone.
I’m vegan, can I call myself Aquafaba instead?
Sure, if you want to, go for it.
Perhaps if you need to, you can try suing yourself.
The lawyers would sure be happy.
I’m new to this. When is egg considered a slur and why? Is it OK to say “so your egg cracked” to a person who came out after a long period of gender-questioning?
If a person is gender non-conforming like a femboy, it is considered unacceptable to assume they are an egg based on their presentation not aligning with gender stereotypes. If a person is currently questioning or does not identify as trans it is generally not good to call them an egg either.
Really the only time is after a person comes out, and even then it can be iffy due to the connotations associated and the prevalent misuse of the term. Some people might not use the term Egg to describe themselves at all even before coming out in the past.
The safest use of the term is to describe oneself in the past-tense.
i.e. “I remember back then, I was such an egg”
Don’t call people eggs
except if they identify as unhatched birds
edit: or reptiles, or fish? do fish lay eggs?
I would say it can be funny if (and probably only if) it’s about a fictional character or historical person
Eh maybe it can be, but in the same way that directly misgendering fictional characters can get iffy or be unpleasant. Egging them isn’t great either. There’s a video by a Creator named Mako Ray that explains it better than I can. This one is about the character Felix Argyle from Re:Zero.
This discourse pains me.
Oftentimes the pushback against it implies that being transfem is such a terrible fate that implying someone might be happier following such a course of action apparently makes you
a degenerate groomersomehow just as bad as the transphobes who want all such people to either detransition or die.There’s just such a strange buried seething resentment to it all, but then again this isn’t even a discussion about people having nuanced one-on-one conversations about gender, it’s a confused imaginary scenario where someone is attempting social forcefem irl via brute force.
This isn’t an imaginary scenario. FtM femboys and cis femboys do need to deal with these things. I’ve seen it happen for years, and even as an egg who hatched into a transfem, it always made me uncomfortable. It felt like an external force taking away the decision from people and enforcing new norms. It did not help me accept myself in any way, but it did give me more doubts to deal with.
There is no reason to do anything but affirm people’s stated gender. If someone is a trans medicalist gatekeeping other trans people, they are still their stated gender. If they are a troll identifying as an attack helicopter, consistently affirming their facetious identity is a great way to make them lose interest. If you think someone who identifies one way might be better fit by a different identity, an enby who might be binary or vice versa, keep that to yourself. If you somehow do know better than the person, denying will not have actually helped them, but increased the likelihood of them doubling down.
All of that is to say that toxic egg culture is real and harmful. No identity is a terrible fate, only not having your autonomy doubted by the people who should welcome you. People define their own gender, end of story, end of discussion. No good comes of denying identities.
Yeah calling other people eggs I don’t think is ever a good idea, since like you mentioned, whatever someone’s gender is, they are valid, and it is entirely their own decision. I don’t entirely agree with the person you replied to because being a femboy is perfectly valid and not at all a “terrible fate,” although as someone who calls their past self an egg, I sympathize with them to a degree because I feel like I can’t call my own self an egg. Idk, maybe a new word is needed because of the toxicity associated with the word egg, but I’m unsure that that would actually fix anything.
I think the problem of egg culture is a deeper issue, it stems from the idea that one can make another person come out, or that a person’s identity can be “known” by others, even against that person’s identification. That last part is where the problem stems, “against that person’s identification”. Until and unless we can get over the idea that one can go against the way a person currently identifies, any new term we come up with to replace egg has the potential to be misused and abused in the same way.
I understand that people can be in denial and that people can change their minds over time, but that is part of the process. The best one can do is to offer support and discuss the idea of gender to someone who might not understand. Without outright telling them they are wrong or that what they’re doing isn’t normal. Some people might say that that isn’t enough and that some people need force. But it’s their choice, and their life. If someone doesn’t want to open their mind or identify differently they have every right to dig in their heels. The idea they don’t is where and when it becomes toxic and where and when it largely stops being affirming.
TL;DR A new term could help, but we have to get over and cease the current pushiness, or it too will become corrupted and abused in the same ways “egg” is.
I fully agree with you here. Maybe it would be better to try to make it clear that egg is only for self referential use, unless the word egg is too corrupted to fix, in which case a new term is probably needed.
I’m not entirely sure if it is, it might be, but it also might be fine. It might just be a matter of changing people’s hearts and minds to think differently and use the word correctly. Which is why I think it’s better to try and make it clear it’s self-reference only, and that policing and labeling others is not tolerated.
Unfortunately the internet has a tendency to do whatever it wants with words, especially neologisms.
Unfortunately I don’t think this person is willing or able to listen, or they might even be arguing in bad faith. They seem to believe or are trying to spin the idea that toxic egg culture isn’t a thing and people are just trying to put down the idea of helping people who are questioning. Or worse, that it’s all just made up terf rhetoric. In my opinion their last two replies in this thread squashed any idea I had that they might be participating in good faith.
Oftentimes the pushback against it implies that being transfem is such a terrible fate that implying someone might be happier following such a course of action apparently makes you a degenerate groomer somehow just as bad as the transphobes who want all such people to either detransition or die.
I disagree with this statement. It’s not the idea that being a woman/transfem is a bad thing, it’s that the person on the receiving end of egg culture just isn’t a woman/transfem. They identify as male and are perfectly comfortable as themselves but are told the way they present is a “sign” of being transfem and the way they identify isn’t respected. It isn’t wrong because being a woman or transfem is somehow insulting, it is wrong because it’s misgendering to go against how someone identifies themselves.
Adding to the fact that some of these people are transmasc, so being told in that case that it’s not wrong or insulting to be called a girl stings that much more because they know they themselves are literally a trans man and are being told their presentation is a “sign” they are a girl.
There’s just such a strange buried seething resentment to it all, but then again this isn’t even a discussion about people having nuanced one-on-one conversations about gender, it’s a confused imaginary scenario where someone is attempting social forcefem irl via brute force.
This reads like a bad faith argument, as if you are trying to imply that to question or critique someone else’s gender identification based on their clothing or presentation is somehow acceptable. Or to attempt to debate their gender and ask leading questions is somehow okay. These are not imaginary situations, they are unfortunately quite common in many trans spaces online, and unfortunately in real life too. Maybe you have not seen or experienced the nastiness before, I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt there, but it is very much a real problem that GNC people, including transmascs and enbies face, it’s not one of those “imaginary cis people problems”, and trying to spin it as such is disingenuous and harmful.
Unfortunately the blowback of such discourse in practice is just people giving me grief for trying to use the word as a shorthand to “me pre-realization” and indirectly calling me a creep if I even mention considering transitioning in any direction in a passive way because even being compared to a trans person causes certain people to damn near flinch reflexively.
What I am most confused by is people implying that it’s immoral to even consider asking someone (irl you’d just use your words - have you considered it? - the idea that the word “egg” implies that being trans is rigidly prescribed from the outside from some tactless strangers trying to blindly out other strangers rather than two peple who know each other politely asking one-on-one in a respectful conversation is kinda wild to me - am I just confused because I managed to dodge significantly stupider online discourse elsewhere and am instead taking this literally?).
Also do you think term “egg” only applies to people “suspected of being women”?
Unfortunately the blowback of such discourse in practice is just people giving me grief for trying to use the word as a shorthand to “me pre-realization” and indirectly calling me a creep if I even mention considering transitioning in any direction in a passive way because even being compared to a trans person causes certain people to damn near flinch reflexively.
With all due respect “Jesse what the fuck are you talking about?”. No one is talking about your ability to call your past self an egg, and no one is giving you shit for you considering transition yourself. You are getting flack right now because you are denying and attempting to excuse the very real fact that there are people in the community who do not respect the way other people identify, who argue and insist that a person who is gender non-conforming must be whatever gender they present as. The example given was that people say that femboys are transfem or trans girls in denial. But great job trying to poison the well and make it out as if we’re attacking you, or that there’s some aggression or hostility towards trans people here.
What I am most confused by is people implying that it’s immoral to even consider asking someone (irl you’d just use your words - have you considered it? - the idea that the word “egg” implies that being trans is rigidly prescribed from the outside from some tactless strangers trying to blindly out other strangers rather than two peple who know each other politely asking one-on-one in a respectful conversation is kinda wild to me - am I just confused because I managed to dodge significantly stupider online discourse elsewhere and am instead taking this literally?).
Except having a polite conversation where you talk to a person about gender identity and make them feel comfortable is not what any of us are talking about when we talk about people being called eggs or the egg prime directive, or people breaking the egg prime directive. Someone saying that “it’s not cis” for someone to dress that way isn’t doing that either. It is making a statement about their gender based on gender stereotypes. The idea that the calling people eggs thing is just polite conversation meant to make people feel safe is at best a strawman argument, and at worst is another attempt to poison the well.
Also do you think term “egg” only applies to people “suspected of being women”?
I just used it here because it’s very common. I’ve seen it happen to tomboys people think are transmasc, or enbies. It is also used legitimately, as a past tense referral for a person before they came out or realized themselves. I haven’t gone into those as much because they are off-topic, this subject is related to the wrongful use of the term, to refer to other people in the present tense.
The whole egg discourse puts a bad taste in my mouth as well. I’ve referred to my past self as an egg and then had someone tell me to stop using that word because it’s groomer language. I’ve never violated the egg prime directive and never will, but I like using egg to describe my past self. However, now when I use the term I get worried because I just don’t want to deal with people who have a stick up their butt.
Edit: I made this comment not fully understanding the word egg and the discourse around it and I let my emotions take the lead, which I really shouldn’t have. I don’t agree with the person I replied to. All identities are valid, none are a terrible fate, and it is a person’s own decision as to what their gender is. People who say egg is groomer language when it’s being used to refer to oneself are just trolls or ignorant and should really just be avoided. Even when egg is being used against the prime directive, I don’t think it is productive discourse because it is just an accusation when they should have instead explained why the egg prime directive should never be violated, so I guess overall it’s best to just not engage. Moving forward, I will try my best to take time to think instead of immediately responding to my emotions.
Someone doesn’t have to be doing things as bad as the transphobes to still be doing something that isn’t ideal, or something that makes other people uncomfortable in a way that has nothing to do with transphobia. It feels bad for anyone to get told they’re doing gender wrong, even if the person doing it is trying to be helpful.
It doesn’t mean anyone doing that is evil, it just means gender is a messy thing to talk about and understand. People can’t always see that what is very affirming and clarifying for them may be constraining for someone else.
That’s a fair point of view, but I am still thrown that most people see the word “egg” as something outsiders use exclusively to coerce or out people since by the time such discourse reaches me it has devolved into people saying to never even consider the idea of respectfully discussing the idea of transing genders with anyone (rather than being a shorthand for “before I realized”).
Anecdotally I reached a stage in figuring things out where I knew what I was but was to batshit terrified to tell anyone, and anyone even considering discussing such a thing around me would’ve felt like a lifeline bordering on divine intervention. Instead I unintentionally played gender-identity chicken with a whole friend group who believed in the egg prime directive for like 8 months because my whole life is a long stream of sitcom-esque idiot plots.
Outsiders? What are you talking about? People get called eggs within trans communities. Violation of the egg prime directive happens almost exclusively within trans spaces from other trans people. Why is this so hard for you to understand or accept? I and others aren’t saying that trans people are evil and “trying to turn kids” or some dumb shit like that. We’re saying that a misguided or harmful group of trans people are acting in a way that is harmful to the community. Which isn’t a new concept might I add, transmedicalists anyone? What about right-wing trans people who fight against and undermine trans rights while trying to vilify other trans people who don’t share their beliefs, like actually vilify them, i.e. the groomer rhetoric. And yeah it is hypocritical, and damaging as fuck.
Do you understand now? Is it clearer now?
To be honest, not really. Call me isolated but idea you are describing sounds more like a bunch of tactless mooks making asses of themselves than an existential threat. Shame that poisons the well on using egg in a self-referential context since that’s the more benign definition (and the one transfems use more, anecdotally - but since when has anything transfems done online ever not been reappropriated in bad faith?). Still I can tell now that this is one of those arguments on the internet where about two people have a disagreement about something and don’t realize they have two entirely separate definitions of a word until 14 comments down.
To be honest, not really. Call me isolated but idea you are describing sounds more like a bunch of tactless mooks making asses of themselves than an existential threat.
Yeah it’s very clear you are unaware of the severity of the issue, or blind to it and the problems it causes. It also seems like you are unwilling to learn the details of the situation because when I give information about it, you ignore it or come to your own conclusions that seem to miss the mark entirely. To the point where I’m not even sure you aren’t having this discussion in bad faith.
Shame that poisons the well on using egg in a self-referential context since that’s the more benign definition
It doesn’t have to, it can be used in ways that are acceptable. I really recommend you read the Egg prime directive speech I posted in Egg_irl. It explains the ways one can use “egg” correctly and the ways that are incorrect or harmful. I don’t really think you will though. From how you’ve engaged it seems like you’re more than happy to stick to your own conclusions despite others telling and showing you they are wrong. Since there is nothing more to say, I think this conversation is over.
def rule: what’s egg? thought egg/orb was in-situ like 196
An egg is a trans person who hasn’t realized they’re trans yet. When you do realize it, you’ve ’cracked your egg’. The symbolism for new beginnings and a new life is intentional too, IMO.
Also the phrase it almost exclusively self-refferentially in practice.
Then there’s the sub Reddit and several Lemmy communities called egg_irl which accuse people of being an egg due to something they said or a picture they shared.
I think that’s where “egg” is used badly
Well it certainly isn’t on [email protected], at least not if I have anything to say about it. Anyone who does will get posts removed, or even bans handed out. The instance doesn’t take too kindly to it either.
But Reddit though… yeah… it’s really bad there. Don’t go on the Reddit communities if you value your sanity and happiness. Not just egg_irl but traa too, and I think even 196 on Reddit suffers from it unfortunately.
Yeah, I like that one ([email protected]) as it is generally about fictional characters
It’s not always like that, but it sometimes does become that. It often is just trans or closeted people memeing on their own behavior with the understanding that those behaviors don’t make them trans. That said, it can be tricky to not overstep bounds or imply the wrong thing. I think it’s a force for good overall, but there are a few things to remember when observing it or participating in it.
- Do not call other people eggs. It is a term that can describe one’s own journey, but not one that can or should be applied to others. At most, sharing one’s own lived experience as an egg can help others reflect.
- Sharing the experience of an egg does not mean someone is trans. Cis people can experience these things without wanting to be another gender.
Definitely, it’s almost always either someone that’s not quite ready to come out or trans people talking about their pre-transition selves. There is a small minority of people who are very insistent on calling other people eggs and seem to think they’re helping, but really are contributing to an environment with more rigid gender roles.
It’s unfortunate because a lot of the time I think what they’re really wanting to do is talk about their own experiences and how things clicked together for them, but are way overgeneralizing about it and projecting it onto other people.
