I came across this cryptic phrase in a description of an old D&D adventure Tale of the Comet . In context, it seems to describe the designer solving a problem of game balance by having the powerful technology items have limited charges / uses before expiring. But I cannot parse prophet-squeeze-monster and I certianly don’t recognise it as a classic trope. Any ideas?
Might be more suited for [email protected].
The way I would understand it is the good old You are the chosen ones, and you need to absolutely get XXXX by killing monsters to prevent the doom of ZZZZ
So just a way to make PC use their ressources. It’s the kind of stuff which work in old-school RPG were ressource attrititon is a full part of the game. Modern RPG tend to drift away from the fight monsters in dungeon and removed or simplified the ressource management aspect (I love how Blade in the Dark let you declare your equipment on the fly rather than having long discussion about what you bring, save a lot of time for the players)
I kinda wonder if it was supposed to be profit-squeeze-monster so give out powerful items to incentivize adventure, squeeze down the unbalance by limiting usage, introduce monster to deplete power.
It’s still sort of awkward phrasing that I don’t recall being common back in the day, but it makes a kind of sense read that way.
That does should plausible, some version of reward/threaten/drain. Thanks ! Even if it isn’t what was intended, I can believe it meant that and thus makes some sort of sense.
I’ve heard of prophet-squeeze-monster, but not as a trope. It’s a fairly well known fetish in BDSM circles.
That’s quite an image!
it is a generic style of storytelling where heros / adventurers / PCs are dragged into a quest by some all-knowing-seer / noble / fate.
an example application of this is when a king(prophet) summons the party, tells them “we are currently waging a war against xxx evil, hero bros” and said hero bros party are the hope of the kingdom. party then buffs up and does the training arc(squeeze) for the scripted big bad(monster) showdown.
an obligatory roll to persuade the king is now the meme to challenge classic trope and makes it more fun~
I can’t find anything concrete online, but my assumption is that it has to do with the adventure / module design.
Consider a scenario where the party is going to go kill a lich, but first must delve into the lich’s lair before they may fight.
“Prophet” being that the party is forearmed with the knowledge of what the final encounter will be - and perhaps some intelligence on the dungeon.
“Squeeze” where the party has encounters that drain their resources. Those grenades / fireballs are going to be handy for fighting the lich, but they’re also useful for dealing with the lich’s zombie army.
“Monster” where the party finally encounters the prophesied monster and fights the lich.
I’ve never heard this trope named this way, but it’s how so many dungeons and adventures are designed. The party knows they have a particular fight coming up, and must carefully manage their resources because they won’t be having that fight at full strength.
Fascinating question. I have a couple (uninformed) guesses:
- maybe “prophet” is a mis-transcription of “profit” and it refers to a “profit squeeze” meaning costs increase but results diminish. this is a way of handling the “game unbalance” problem: the technology is there but the cost is so high it doesn’t unbalance things. So “profit-squeeze monster” means you just take that to the extreme.
- instead, maybe the last two words go together to make “squeeze monster”. You know like those rubber stress toys that you squeeze and part of the monster is an eye or something that bulges out. I seem to remember those being around in the 90s when this article is about. So “prophet / squeeze-monster” refers to two ways of limiting the game unbalance problem: the technology is either used as a “prophet” to just estimate your enemy or something, or its a “squeeze monster” where… uh… I dunno… you disfigure but don’t kill the enemy?
- instead, maybe “squeeze monster” is like you pull a trigger but can’t control it… you’re a “squeeze monster”?
If I were editing that article/review, I’d change the word “trope” to something like “technique” or “approach”, bc “trope” sounds like it should be widespread. I’d guess it’s probably a technique that game designers used and talked about to one another and had this term as a shorthand probably bc of some anecdote or cartoon or funny t-shirt that someone had once.
I’m willing to bet that there was a cultural shift between when that module was written and now. I am willing to bet that the author and all his friends knew what a prophet-squeeze-monster trope is because it was nearly ubiquitous at the time, but then people stopped using it (likely because it was seen as the “obvious” option) and as a result it stopped being a classic trope.
As a comparison, I am working on a novel with a soft magic system. However, I tend to forget that it is a soft magic system when I am explaining it to friends because it has strict rules for how it works, and more importantly i am a huge Tolkien nerd and forget other people dont even know who Morgoth is. At one point, I made the mistake of telling a friend that “its a pretty standard fantasy magic system” which they interpreted as “it works like D&D instead of like Mistborn”. They then had to double back and ask me what I thought a “standard magic system” was when I started talking about legal standing and precedent letting my wizards cast spells. To me, this seemed normal because that’s how Gandalf does magic. But the current high fantasy landscape has trained people to think of magic as an alternate science where specific inputs get specific outputs, so people tend to instinctively think of soft magic systems as working the same but with less control over the inputs or less reliable outputs.
That sounds super interesting! I’d love to hear more about middle earth magic as law, if you can be bothered saying more (or if you know of any articles or videos) about it. I assume by legal standing you mean how gandalf’s authority (once returned as ‘the white’) is what grants him power over saruman, and such. Is that right? What do you mean by precedent?
Magic in Tolkien’s Legendarium has two main parts: authority and secret knowledge. Secret knowledge allows those who have seen the light of the two trees to use the dual nature of the world to make artifacts that work in ways we can’t explain, and is effectively just science we can’t ever have access to. Anyway, you wanted to know about authority:
Looking at the example of Gandalf breaking the bridge, he says “I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass!” and then strikes the keystone with his staff. Let’s break this down:
- Before we get to analyzing this line, we have to talk about his staff and his robes some more. These arent just clothes and a walking stick, these are his Uniform. If you went into a courtroom and the Judge was wearing jeans and a t-shirt, I dont think you would take them seriously. It’s really important to be dressed the part! The staff, in particular, functions like a badge of office. Think of all the stuff a cop can do by flashing their badge! They can’t do their job without it! The robes also signify his station so much he is named after his robes, but we arent sure why he is specifically grey.
- First, he declares that he is a servant of the Secret Fire. This is the fire of creation, which belongs to and is part of Eru Iluvatar. This also has a dual meaning, since all mortals have a small piece of the Secret Fire inside them. So, with this line he is not only saying he serves God but also humanity.
- By “wielder of the flame of Anor”, he could mean a few things. The Flame of Anor is the sun, literally speaking. I personally think he is invoking his ring of power, Narya, because i like taking things in the most literal way. The consensus among fans is that he is invoking his the power he gained as a servant of the the Lords of the West, since Anor was a fruit from the two trees which was placed in the sky by Nienna if memory serves. Nienna is significant here because Gandalf studied under her and learned from her the power of mercy, which is ultimately what defeats Sauron in the Lord of the Rings.
- He addresses the balrog as the flame of Udun, and tells him that Morgoth will not save him here. “Go back to the shadow!” is at once a command to leave and telling him to go where Morgoth is, which is DEAD.
- And then we get to the iconic “You Shall Not Pass!” line which is frankly better in the movies. He is not talking to the Balrog here. He is stating a new law of nature. It is now impossible for this balrog to cross this bridge.
This entire scene can be compared to a police officer showing up to a house, showing their badge and a warrant to search the place, announcing their intent to search the place, and then entering. Miss a step, and it doesn’t work.
Precedent has more to do with the powers that kings have. For example, Denethor’s line presides as the Steward of Gondor for so long the authority of his line seems comparable to Aragorn’s at some points, and this allows him to do some things that look like magic. One thing that comes to mind is that he seems to have a supernatural ability to spot falsehoods, which Sauron takes advantage of by feeding him half-truths. And let’s not forget this man held a Palantir in his hand for decades, stared Sauron in the face for decades, and he did not break. This man had a stronger will than Saruman!
There were arguably more examples of this variety of magic, where a king seems to have supernatural abilities because they are kings, and promises seem to have more power than laws. But if I detailed every little moment of magic i would be typing here all day.
Super interesting! Thanks !
My guess based on your description would be something good, that after a few uses, goes catastrophically bad. Like a gun that disintegrates the person you shoot (prophet) and each subsequent use after the first (squeeze) gives it a increasing chance to disintegrate itself and the user. (monster)
I think this is an eccentricity, not a reference to a real idea
Possibly, the general style of those “product history” pieces is pretty grounded. It’s not formal academic history, but it tries for a historical reporting vibe that makes me doubt theyd just throw in a nonsense phrase or in-joke.
But if no one can explain it, then it’s certainly a possible explanation, although if it really is meaningless I’d lean towards typo.
