For some context, we are first generation immigrants. My parents are Russian, my mother and her husband have been living here for 20 years (even got rid of Russian citizenship couple years ago), my biological father is still living in Russia.
It’s damn exhausting to discuss political topics with them, especially my father. He keeps telling me how great it is to live in Russia, how their economy is doing great and how he’s proud that they are defending their “brothers” in Donezk and Luhansk from the evil bandera regime in Ukraine.
My mom voted far right in the past election. She doesn’t believe she voted for nazis, but the party’s views on economics, climate policy and immigration seem to align with hers. She believes wind farms are harmful for the environment. What the actual fuck.
Whenever I try to argue with them, they tell me that I’ve been brainwashed by “Western propaganda”.
I’m at a loss. I love my parents and I know that nobody’s immune to propaganda, but it’s heartbreaking to see them holding these toxic beliefs. How would you deal with parents like these? Should I just declare to never talk about politics with them again since it’s pointless?
Feed them gotcha questions. Treat it as a mental exercise.
Do not do that. That just reinforces their beliefs and tribalism
My therapist made a really great point when I brought up this exact issue with him. He asked if I value a relationship with my parents, and I said yes. Then he said that the price you have to pay for having a relationship with them, is never discussing politics.
It worked for a year or so, but then they voted for that rapist again, and I’ve since cut them out of my life. I’m not walking around on the eggshells of their bigotry and ignorance just so I can get some semblance of what some may describe as affection. You can only say/do so many shitty terrible things before I’m just done with you completely, and they hit their limit, so it was time to cash out.
Sorry, my advice of ignoring politics only works for a little while.
If you don’t mind me asking, how often did politics come up with your parents?
Edit: just for my own perspective, they came up a little with my father while he was still alive and very, very rarely with my mother who I still see daily. I gently gauge the political position that my kids have but I’ve raised them all with empathy as a central tenet of their upbringing so that’s more or less where they tend to fall as best I can tell.
I am not interested in ending up where you did and I mean that with kindness.
When I was younger, I would have argued till I was blue in the face. I’ve since learned to choose my battles and not waste my time and energy on battles I know I can’t win… so I’d leave it alone as much as they allowed it, and eventually refuse to discuss it at all if needed.
OMG
I was born in PRC, and I immigrated to the US along with my family. They just look at WeChat all day, and regurgitate CCP propaganda, and also pro-maga propaganda which is kinda an interesting combo of propagandas, considering how maga is always anti-China. Keeps blaming Democrats for the “migrant crisis” like BRUH we are immigrants 🤦♂️.
They left for economic (and to some degree political) reasons. Its fucking hard to get a job in mainland China, like theres 1.4 billion people ye know what I mean. And there’s no unions, no strikes, no workplace safety, no labor rights.
Yea they look at their current Union job in the US and still be like: “China wasn’t that bad”
Also funny thing is: I was the second child to be born in my family… during the One Child Policy… 👀
So I was not supposed to be born, my parents violated CCP policy, and they would’ve killed me (as in a forced abortion) if they found me, so my mother had to hide until I was born, but even then, I didn’t have legal documents (like birth certificates) until they paid a massive fine.
AND THEY ARE STILL SYMPATHETIC TO THE CCP 🤦♂️
Gee, thanks mom, guess if you love CCP so much, just let them take you away and force an abortion? At least I wouldn’t have to deal with this fucked up world.
Like, that’s my best argument against them every time they bring up pro-CCP views, I’d just be like (in Cantonese, obviously): “So you agree they should’ve killed me? Why didn’t you just let them then?” that shuts them up every time.
I mean, this world is so bizzare, I feel like I’m on some Truman Show and everyone is just messing with me
I’m thinking that it’s hard for them to be anti-CCP when all of their lives have had CCP propaganda as their main source of information, and moving abroad doesn’t really break that bond since the familiarity is still available online.
And of course CCP doesn’t seem so bad when they’re compared to the “alternative” as portrayed by the CCP.
There is a way to deradicalize people. It’s not easy, but it’s possible. I’m surprised this isn’t more common information now, but here it is.
You need to understand that each of us builds our beliefs on a set of ideological structures. We believe in policies because of principles. We believe in principles because of foundations. All of these ideas reinforce each other and create our sense of self. Preservation of the self is the highest imperative, and so people resist persuasion with increasing ferocity the more foundational an idea feels to their sense of self.
The way around this is to convince them that their foundational beliefs support a different concept. In many ways, it’s actually a bit like the premise of the Christopher Nolan film “Inception” without the technology: the person needs to essentially feel like they themselves discovered whatever idea you’re trying to convince them of, based on their existing beliefs.
This means first understanding what their core beliefs are and why they feel that these support the policies and identies you’re trying to change. Then you need to identify what can serve as a replacement, and find a way to get them to see the replacement as more appealing.
To put this into practice, can you tell me what you’d describe as their underlying principles? What are their fears and desires that shape their values? Common examples for conservatives include fear of change; a belief that life is a ruthless zero-sum game, and that we all most look out for our tribe or we will be exploited and subjugated by our adversaries. Conviction that tradition is a guide to keep us safe from reckless thinking, and that prescribed social roles and hierarchies are essential for our very survival.
If that’s the case, you can’t argue for progressivism by trying to convince them that we should all just love each other and welcome immigrants and that gender and sexual freedom are socially good. It’s like trying to talk them into jumping off a bridge. Instead, you need to explain how if you want to look out for yourself and your family, you should do it in a different way. And these politicians who sound so convincing are secretly the kind of people that they already don’t trust.
Keep in mind that replacing their faith in these kinds of leaders with your preferred political leaders is likely folly. People don’t invert their ideological identities. You need a replacement that is a good match, and because politics are often polar, a better substitute for dangerous political attachments are often simply outside of politics entirely. This may be non-partisan faith communities or sports teams or local social clubs. But if you can find a new story that fits into their existing theory of the world and satisfies their ideological needs better than right-wing politics, you CAN get people to slowly stop watching YouTube conspiracy videos or stop spending their time in far-right Facebook groups in favor of something healthier.
All of this is hard to do, but it CAN be done. I find it very frustrating that this info is still somehow obscure considering how essential it is these days.
I’m of the opinion that a lot of conservatives would stop being conservatives if they could magically gain the ability to feel empathy.
I gave up on my mother after she voted for Trump this past election. I had been accommodating her terrible beliefs by instating a “no politics” rule in 2020. But her helping him back into office again is too much. I have friends who he wants to harm and that’s not acceptable to me.
Whenever I try to argue with them, they tell me that I’ve been brainwashed by “Western propaganda”.
I would ask “What makes you think so?” and go from there.
Likely the only viable way is to guide them into realizing where their biases come from, or that they’re taking views over without questioning them.
If you seemingly can’t change their opinions or views, and it burdens you, it’s fine to accept different or opposing views. You can either evade those topics completely, and if necessary be vocal and explicit about that, or physically leave [the room] if necessary, or make your opposition clear while also making it clear that you have no interest in discussing it further.
My parents immigrated from “communist” Poland years ago and had similar conservative views. Abortion bad, church good, black people lazy, etc… It took years of discussions and disagreement to get them to think in a more progressive way, and yes, having siblings helps. And if you can convince one parent, they can help you convince the other.
I truly believe that art is one of the best ways to alter the way people think. I found that watching movies/documentaries with my parents that had strong ecological and humanitarion viewpoints were a great way to start these discussions. Movies about topics like systemic racism, homophobia, corporate greed/fraud, environmental destruction, religious abuse, etc…
For example, the Netflix documentary ‘13th’ have real insight into how the systemic racism uses poverty to keep marginalized people poor and desperate enough to commit crimes. Which are then blamed on their skin color rather than their on economic situation.
We consciously make an effort to either not talk about certain topics or we try to not get too deep into certain topics. This doesn’t always work and we clash, but the clashes don’t cause as much trouble as they used to.
Often I just listen to them and try to support them through the concerns they have. I’m aware that they influence me, being aware helps to either ask them or myself critical questions.
Friends & Family > politics
Now one could argue I’m not serious with my stance and I’m weakly backboned. Id answer that this is my family and I’d advise you don’t put politics over friends & family or you will end up alone at some point.
the challenge Im facing is that some if my family voted to put me and the people I love in camps.
How do I deal with that?
I think a psychologist would say that if you really can’t find common ground, it’s best to agree not to talk about it.
Indoctrination is highly effective. Your parents were raised in a place where toeing the line is the norm and questioning those in power is traditionally a great way to ensure you disappear. Russians are deeply indoctrinated when compared to western nations because that’s how their society has been set up since 1922. The Soviet leadership ruled by suppressing any dissent, violently and without remorse. Just because the Soviet Union no longer exists, doesn’t mean their ways of doing things disappeared too.
The only way to change them would be to engage in an equally sophisticated program of indoctrination: deprogramming as it’s called. Since you lack the resources of the Soviet Union, it would be a much more difficult task, especially since your parents are now older and their brains are less changeable. They were indoctrinated as children and by a very prolific system. Reversing that now, by yourself, is a tall order.
I’m sorry your parents were failed by their leadership, it’s truly a shame.
Get away from them as soon as its feasible.
Nothing you can do.
It’s not uncommon for people who lived under harsh authoritarians to still support that methodology even if they emigrate to a more moderate and tolerant society to escape the shit country for a better life. Cubans, Russians, even some of my own family members who lived under one of the most infamous dictators of all, they have the same sentiment about their own fascist leader: “At least Hitler made the trains run on time.” Even if it isn’t true, the dictator would bash heads and keep the apple cart from being upset - not because doing so made anyone’s life better…quite the opposite. Bashing heads and keeping order prevented things like crackdowns, purges, arrests and the like that made lives worse.
Tell them this, Can’t buy a house under Republicans,can’t buy a house under Democrats, while it’s great it worked out for them. You are not represented as a voter and they need to get their heads out of their ass. That is, if they try to push conservative ideas. Otherwise, let them be happy and stupid. The misery is coming for them eventually, so why rush them.
Oh hey we’re in the exact same boat! My parents are from Russia too and moved to Germany about 20 years ago. If the bureaucracy here wasn’t that slow, they would have had citizenship by now and 100% both voted AfD.
We never had a decent relationship and I’m not concerned about preserving anything, so the goal is to just fully cut all contact at some point 🤷
Until then, I just act ignorant whenever they bring up politics (like literally pretending to not know who Trump is, because “what, why would I pay attention to niche american politics, they’re literally an ocean away??”).
Works pretty well, sometimes it even does make them retrospect about why they would care so much about seemingly random topics (because Russian propaganda channels train them to react to specific buzzwords).
Ultimately, I don’t think they would ever change into better people and any energy put into changing their minds would be better used somewhere else.
